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> Everything no matter how niche is presented as an emergency. It's "appeal to emotion", and it works. > Amir Locke This event was one administration too lat

> Everything no matter how niche is presented as an emergency. It's "appeal to emotion", and it works. > Amir Locke This event was one administration too late to make a splash, unfortunately. > BLM They got exposed as Marxists, and everyone started distancing themselves, thankfully.

raidicy 5y ago
>They got exposed as Marxists, and everyone started distancing themselves, thankfully. What does that mean though? Why would Marxism be a signal for avoiding the movement? I don't know anything about Marxism.
- mantas 5y ago
  Ideology responsible for millions of deaths by USSR, Communist China, Pol Pot and other similar regimes.
- engineer_22 5y ago
  In its own terms, Marxism seeks an end to alienation and exploitation. That is to say, the Marxist vision is to create a utopian society. Heaven on Earth. When heaven doesn't come, you need a scapegoat, and the Marxists start killing people. Ukrainian pogroms, Great Leap Forward, Khmer Rouge, there's enough examples to be convinced that Marxism is inherently genocidal.
- wyre 5y ago
  Because in America anything that isn’t Capitalism is viewed as the enemy after decades of propaganda against the USSR. Marxism is socioeconomic analysis of class structures. Marx and Engel’s book Capital is largely a critique of capitalism. Vladimir Lenin expanded on these ideas with methods to transition to a communist society (another thing Marx wrote about). After Lenin died Stalin took power over the USSR and committed atrocities against mankind, fighting Nazis, and leading the country through an industrial revolution. Mao expanded on these ideas in China and is still on track with their 100 year plan written ~70 years ago (as far as I know). Dismissing Marxism is good for capital and the ruling class as it views BLM as its enemy.
  - kofejnik 5y ago
    The whole notion of class struggle only serves to divide people and allow marxists to seize power. Lenin was not less evil than Stalin. USSR really really sucked (I was born in USSR). Kids, don't do Marxism, not even once.
  - unmole 5y ago
    > After Lenin died Stalin took power over the USSR and committed atrocities against mankind The Red Terror campaign under Lenin killed over a million people. Let's not pretend Stalin is the only one responsible for atrocities. > Mao expanded on these ideas in China Under Mao's brain-dead economic policies, China suffered the worst man made famine in history. China's recent acendency only came about after Deng Xiaoping's far reaching economic reforms. The idea that China is still following Mao's plan is ridiculous.
    - raidicy 5y ago
      I am like a baby when it comes to political and cultural thought. I apologize if my questions are stupid. Is Marxism a form of Socialism? And are the failings of the implementations throughout history a direct result of the ideology itself?
  - hajile 5y ago
    Read “The Gulag Archipelago” It will fundamentally change how you view that system. It shows that the Bolshevik Revolution really was bottom up. They implemented the teachings of Marx down to the letter. The violence and death was considered necessary by Marx himself. The gulags started under Lenin and were simply continued under Stalin. Most interestingly, people were so indoctrinated into the Marxist religion that they could be charged for a crime they knew they didn’t commit, be tortured for the required 6-9 months, sentenced to 10-25 years in a Gulag, find out that almost everyone else was innocent (often just captured to fulfill the prison quota), somehow survive the process, and come out the other side still singing the praises of the people and system that did all this to them. Marxism is the most dangerous cult the world has ever seen and is responsible for more death and suffering than any other organization that has ever existed.
- akomtu 5y ago
  If you read the story of famous marxists on wikipedia (Lenin & Mao for example), you'll see a lot of parallels with the movement. The BLM org corresponds to Red Guard probably: the core force of the movement. That's why I think they've chosen a fist as their symbol (can you imagine a peaceful organisation rooting for unity using this symbol?). And just like other marxist regimes, those at the top quickly give up ideals, and start enriching themselves (I'm talking about that house shopping spree of the former BLMGN leader).
- YATA0 5y ago
  Marxism is a failed 19th century socioeconomic/political philosophy with a nine figure body count. Like Nazism, it is to be avoided at all costs.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Why would Marxism be a signal for avoiding the movement? Because lots of people have been affected by propaganda (both Leninist and capitalist) equating Marxism with Leninism (and it's descendants), and Leninism has a legitimately horrifying track record.
  - raidicy 5y ago
    So is Marxism a victim of being connflated with people masquerading as Marxist committing atrocities?
judahmeek 5y ago
> They got exposed as Marxists How so? What are the signals of Marxism within the BLM movement? What's the difference between Marxism & just unrealistic idealism?
- kbutler 5y ago
  One clear difference is the leaders enriching themselves without advancing the welfare of the people they claim to be promoting.
  - Tanjreeve 5y ago
    > One clear difference is the leaders enriching themselves without advancing the welfare of the people they claim to be promoting. Ah yes that thing that famously only happens in Marxist political regimes.
    - kbutler 5y ago
      "What's the difference between Marxism & just unrealistic idealism" Difference between Marxism and unrealistic idealism, not between Marxism and other political regimes. But I'd love to see an example of a Marxist regime bigger than a kibbutz that does not display that pattern, if you have one.
      - Tanjreeve 5y ago
        This is a nebulous question you are just going to move the goalposts whatever answer I give seeing as every political regime in history has some degree of enrichment for its leaders. This leaves aside the whole "name a successful example except for these successful examples"
        kbutler 5y ago
        Yeah, I couldn't come up with one, either. Kibbutzim are questionably successful at best - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz_crisis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz_crisis for example, but they seem to be an upper scalability limit.
batty_alex 5y ago
[flagged]
- lliamander 5y ago
  You're not going to persuade anyone by calling them "racist" - a term so abused by motte-and-bailey tactics as to have lost all meaning. If what they say is false, then say so and argue your case. While BLM can refer to a number of different things, there happens to be a non-profit called "Black Lives Matter", the founders of which explicitly claimed to be trained Marxists. Whether this organization was rightfully the face of the BLM movement is debatable, but regardless it enjoyed a fair degree of prominence for a time.
tomjakubowski 5y ago
> This event was one administration too late to make a splash, unfortunately. Nice try but Black Lives Matter started after the Michael Brown shooting, which was during the Obama administration. correction: first started after George Zimmerman was acquitted on murder charges for killing Trayvon Martin, which the year before Michael Brown was killed, still during the Obama administration.
908B64B197 5y ago
> They got exposed as Marxists, and everyone started distancing themselves, thankfully. What? My understanding is that it's more of a collection of local initiatives. It’s not like the NAACP that has a central leadership and a board.

raidicy 5y ago

>They got exposed as Marxists, and everyone started distancing themselves, thankfully. What does that mean though? Why would Marxism be a signal for avoiding the movement? I don't know anything about Marxism.

mantas 5y ago
Ideology responsible for millions of deaths by USSR, Communist China, Pol Pot and other similar regimes.
engineer_22 5y ago
In its own terms, Marxism seeks an end to alienation and exploitation. That is to say, the Marxist vision is to create a utopian society. Heaven on Earth. When heaven doesn't come, you need a scapegoat, and the Marxists start killing people. Ukrainian pogroms, Great Leap Forward, Khmer Rouge, there's enough examples to be convinced that Marxism is inherently genocidal.
wyre 5y ago
Because in America anything that isn’t Capitalism is viewed as the enemy after decades of propaganda against the USSR. Marxism is socioeconomic analysis of class structures. Marx and Engel’s book Capital is largely a critique of capitalism. Vladimir Lenin expanded on these ideas with methods to transition to a communist society (another thing Marx wrote about). After Lenin died Stalin took power over the USSR and committed atrocities against mankind, fighting Nazis, and leading the country through an industrial revolution. Mao expanded on these ideas in China and is still on track with their 100 year plan written ~70 years ago (as far as I know). Dismissing Marxism is good for capital and the ruling class as it views BLM as its enemy.
- kofejnik 5y ago
  The whole notion of class struggle only serves to divide people and allow marxists to seize power. Lenin was not less evil than Stalin. USSR really really sucked (I was born in USSR). Kids, don't do Marxism, not even once.
- unmole 5y ago
  > After Lenin died Stalin took power over the USSR and committed atrocities against mankind The Red Terror campaign under Lenin killed over a million people. Let's not pretend Stalin is the only one responsible for atrocities. > Mao expanded on these ideas in China Under Mao's brain-dead economic policies, China suffered the worst man made famine in history. China's recent acendency only came about after Deng Xiaoping's far reaching economic reforms. The idea that China is still following Mao's plan is ridiculous.
  - raidicy 5y ago
    I am like a baby when it comes to political and cultural thought. I apologize if my questions are stupid. Is Marxism a form of Socialism? And are the failings of the implementations throughout history a direct result of the ideology itself?
- hajile 5y ago
  Read “The Gulag Archipelago” It will fundamentally change how you view that system. It shows that the Bolshevik Revolution really was bottom up. They implemented the teachings of Marx down to the letter. The violence and death was considered necessary by Marx himself. The gulags started under Lenin and were simply continued under Stalin. Most interestingly, people were so indoctrinated into the Marxist religion that they could be charged for a crime they knew they didn’t commit, be tortured for the required 6-9 months, sentenced to 10-25 years in a Gulag, find out that almost everyone else was innocent (often just captured to fulfill the prison quota), somehow survive the process, and come out the other side still singing the praises of the people and system that did all this to them. Marxism is the most dangerous cult the world has ever seen and is responsible for more death and suffering than any other organization that has ever existed.
akomtu 5y ago
If you read the story of famous marxists on wikipedia (Lenin & Mao for example), you'll see a lot of parallels with the movement. The BLM org corresponds to Red Guard probably: the core force of the movement. That's why I think they've chosen a fist as their symbol (can you imagine a peaceful organisation rooting for unity using this symbol?). And just like other marxist regimes, those at the top quickly give up ideals, and start enriching themselves (I'm talking about that house shopping spree of the former BLMGN leader).
YATA0 5y ago
Marxism is a failed 19th century socioeconomic/political philosophy with a nine figure body count. Like Nazism, it is to be avoided at all costs.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> Why would Marxism be a signal for avoiding the movement? Because lots of people have been affected by propaganda (both Leninist and capitalist) equating Marxism with Leninism (and it's descendants), and Leninism has a legitimately horrifying track record.
- raidicy 5y ago
  So is Marxism a victim of being connflated with people masquerading as Marxist committing atrocities?

judahmeek 5y ago

> They got exposed as Marxists How so? What are the signals of Marxism within the BLM movement? What's the difference between Marxism & just unrealistic idealism?

kbutler 5y ago
One clear difference is the leaders enriching themselves without advancing the welfare of the people they claim to be promoting.
- Tanjreeve 5y ago
  > One clear difference is the leaders enriching themselves without advancing the welfare of the people they claim to be promoting. Ah yes that thing that famously only happens in Marxist political regimes.
  - kbutler 5y ago
    "What's the difference between Marxism & just unrealistic idealism" Difference between Marxism and unrealistic idealism, not between Marxism and other political regimes. But I'd love to see an example of a Marxist regime bigger than a kibbutz that does not display that pattern, if you have one.
    - Tanjreeve 5y ago
      This is a nebulous question you are just going to move the goalposts whatever answer I give seeing as every political regime in history has some degree of enrichment for its leaders. This leaves aside the whole "name a successful example except for these successful examples"
      - kbutler 5y ago
        Yeah, I couldn't come up with one, either. Kibbutzim are questionably successful at best - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz_crisis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kibbutz_crisis for example, but they seem to be an upper scalability limit.

batty_alex 5y ago

[flagged]

lliamander 5y ago
You're not going to persuade anyone by calling them "racist" - a term so abused by motte-and-bailey tactics as to have lost all meaning. If what they say is false, then say so and argue your case. While BLM can refer to a number of different things, there happens to be a non-profit called "Black Lives Matter", the founders of which explicitly claimed to be trained Marxists. Whether this organization was rightfully the face of the BLM movement is debatable, but regardless it enjoyed a fair degree of prominence for a time.

tomjakubowski 5y ago

> This event was one administration too late to make a splash, unfortunately. Nice try but Black Lives Matter started after the Michael Brown shooting, which was during the Obama administration. correction: first started after George Zimmerman was acquitted on murder charges for killing Trayvon Martin, which the year before Michael Brown was killed, still during the Obama administration.

908B64B197 5y ago

> They got exposed as Marxists, and everyone started distancing themselves, thankfully. What? My understanding is that it's more of a collection of local initiatives. It’s not like the NAACP that has a central leadership and a board.