5 ms·

Tesla says gas generators “no longer rational”, batteries are smarter, cheaper

15 points by CarCooler 5y ago

gattilorenz 5y ago
No conflict of interest, I imagine... /s I have no idea whether 9GW of gas plants for peaking power is too much or too little, but in Italy the proverb says that asking the restaurant owner "how's your house wine?" is pointless.
- consumer451 5y ago
  Yes, but their claims here can be falsified with math and references. I am unable to do so, has anyone else?
  - gattilorenz 5y ago
    It's hard to falsify the claim (and what's the point?), because for the decision to be rational we need to both know what the energy requirements are, what the price of gas and batteries are, how much we value the environment/diminished CO2 (and how much of it would be saved), etc. Unless you mean the claim is "batteries can suffice", but without a price tag it's pretty uninteresting as a claim.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
throwaway81523 5y ago
And full self driving is in beta test. Any day now!
aaron695 5y ago
foxyv 5y ago
I priced out the cost of a solar roof and battery system recently after some long blackouts. The 30 year payback was something like -$3000. Total cost was half as much as my house and the system wouldn't have kept power on anyways for the 4+ days I was out of power. Meanwhile I can buy a natural gas or diesel backup generator for under $5000. I REALLY want solar and battery to work for me because I love the technology. But the math never comes out right. Grid power is just too cheap where I live. Even the wind only options.
- tekknik 5y ago
  Also if you make an insurance claim against your house for hurricane damage the insurance company will require a gas generator be installed during the repairs if there was mold damage. They don’t allow solar + batteries to replace it either.
- bcrl 5y ago
  That isn't at all what the article is talking about. It's talking about using battery farms to provide support to the electric grid for transient spikes in demand, a role that is more traditionally served by hydro-electric generators and natural gas. Using batteries to support the grid allows grid operators to reduce costs that arise from having to pay for standby capacity, as the batteries can supply power while generation capacity that is slower to respond comes online. It's not a panacea for grid operators by any means, but it's definitely a useful tool to have at hand.
  - foxyv 5y ago
    > That isn't at all what the article is talking about. Just an anecdote, incidentally related to the article.
- 1123581321 5y ago
  Might be worth looking at other vendors. It’s not as sleek, but installing a roof rack of high watt panels, a Fronius and a $10k battery should pay for itself before the warranty expires in many states when credits are factored.
hulitu 5y ago
> Tesla says gas generators “no longer rational”, batteries are smarter, cheaper And they burn longer.

15 points by CarCooler 5y ago

No conflict of interest, I imagine... /s I have no idea whether 9GW of gas plants for peaking power is too much or too little, but in Italy the proverb says that asking the restaurant owner "how's your house wine?" is pointless.

consumer451 5y ago
Yes, but their claims here can be falsified with math and references. I am unable to do so, has anyone else?
- gattilorenz 5y ago
  It's hard to falsify the claim (and what's the point?), because for the decision to be rational we need to both know what the energy requirements are, what the price of gas and batteries are, how much we value the environment/diminished CO2 (and how much of it would be saved), etc. Unless you mean the claim is "batteries can suffice", but without a price tag it's pretty uninteresting as a claim.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

throwaway81523 5y ago

And full self driving is in beta test. Any day now!

aaron695 5y ago

foxyv 5y ago

I priced out the cost of a solar roof and battery system recently after some long blackouts. The 30 year payback was something like -$3000. Total cost was half as much as my house and the system wouldn't have kept power on anyways for the 4+ days I was out of power. Meanwhile I can buy a natural gas or diesel backup generator for under $5000. I REALLY want solar and battery to work for me because I love the technology. But the math never comes out right. Grid power is just too cheap where I live. Even the wind only options.

tekknik 5y ago
Also if you make an insurance claim against your house for hurricane damage the insurance company will require a gas generator be installed during the repairs if there was mold damage. They don’t allow solar + batteries to replace it either.
bcrl 5y ago
That isn't at all what the article is talking about. It's talking about using battery farms to provide support to the electric grid for transient spikes in demand, a role that is more traditionally served by hydro-electric generators and natural gas. Using batteries to support the grid allows grid operators to reduce costs that arise from having to pay for standby capacity, as the batteries can supply power while generation capacity that is slower to respond comes online. It's not a panacea for grid operators by any means, but it's definitely a useful tool to have at hand.
- foxyv 5y ago
  > That isn't at all what the article is talking about. Just an anecdote, incidentally related to the article.
1123581321 5y ago
Might be worth looking at other vendors. It’s not as sleek, but installing a roof rack of high watt panels, a Fronius and a $10k battery should pay for itself before the warranty expires in many states when credits are factored.

hulitu 5y ago

> Tesla says gas generators “no longer rational”, batteries are smarter, cheaper And they burn longer.