8 ms·

Attention metal thieves: Buy BT, get 75 million miles of copper

91 points by fvbock 15y ago

simonw 15y ago
I used to think that designing railway signals must be the hardest problem in engineering, because every time I'm delayed on a train (a pretty common occurrence in the UK) the announcement blames it on a "signal failure". Then I found out that the problem is caused by an epidemic of metal theft on the railways!
- pbhjpbhj 15y ago
  It's becoming a big problem in the UK - my parents phone and broadband was down for about a week when their (rural) wires were stripped. The thieves get a truck, tie on the cable and drive, rips the whole thing out the [shallow ditch in the] ground, wrap it up and sell it ... then they come back a week later, when the cable has been replaced, and do it again. Someone tried to steal the gas pipes from a business premises in my city, left gas leaking in to the building for 24 hours or so, didn't even manage to make off with the pipe. Morons.
  - chris11 15y ago
    I worked for awhile at a local power coop. My boss had to go into court one day because someone was caught trying to steal copper from a substation. The guy was lucky he didn't kill himself.
    - seabee 15y ago
      People do die for it[0] [1]. Not to sound too flippant but the lengths they go to just to steal some wire is genuinely shocking. Do they not appreciate the dangers? [0] http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1090905_metal_thief_found_dead_under_pylon http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1090905_m... [1] http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/substation_electrocution_tragedy_two_men_admit_burglary_1_459762 http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/substation_electrocution_trage...
  - ookware 15y ago
    Sign this petition to help fight this stupidty http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/406 http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/406
  - jacques_chester 15y ago
    A lot of railway signalling is now done over fibre optics for this reason, with the odd side-effect that a number of rail companies are moonlighting as telcos.
asymmetric 15y ago
I gotta say I love El Reg's sarcastic style
- shithead 15y ago
  If I knew what an "attention metal" thief was, or just "attention metal", I'd agree. Effective sarcasm demands flawless execution, and they're losing that. Nowadays one can often find misspellings and sundry grammatical errors in their texts.
  - rdw 15y ago
    I read The Reg ten years ago; spelling errors and screwups of all kinds were completely standard.
smoyer 15y ago
Telecom companies (including cable operators) are all about cash-flow. When you have a solid subscriber base, there's not an issue with carrying a lot of debt. What is a problem is that the younger generations aren't tied to having a land-line and the older generations are gradually following suit.
cperciva 15y ago
Tanenbaum pointed this out a couple decades ago with respect to AT&T: At one time, 80 percent of AT&T’s capital value was the copper in the local loops. AT&T was then, in effect, the world’s largest copper mine. Fortunately, this fact was not widely known in the investment community. Had it been known, some corporate raider might have bought AT&T, terminated all telephone service in the United States, ripped out all the wire, and sold the wire to a copper refiner to get a quick payback.
- lurker19 15y ago
  Did that analysis include the cost to dig for all that copper?
  - rokhayakebe 15y ago
    You do not have to do much digging. Choose to end points not too far from each other. Cut the lines on one end. Attach a strong string on end A. Pull the wires from end B. Now you pulled the wires, and you also have a string that can be used later by another company wanting to use the tube (which you will sell btw).
- Someone 15y ago
  I guess that approach would have seen the price of copper sink rapidly and very deeply, as it would remove quite a bit of demand and would introduce a new supplier.
  - jonknee 15y ago
    There would be plenty of demand--someone would be building a new phone network to service all those old AT&T customers.
    - rbranson 15y ago
      Ron Paul approves this message.
tomelgin 15y ago
Before you consider buying a company and selling off its assets, you have to realize that when you own a company you also own its debt, and that if you liquidate you have to pay off all that debt (unless you can pocket the cash and file for bankruptcy, not generally legal). This info is publicly available and quite a bit more accurate that the Register's napkin math. As of March 31, 2011 (end of BT's last fiscal year), they owned $23bln (that's USD) in "Property Plant & Equipment" (including all the copper in question) and held $35bln in liabilities. [1]http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=BT+Balance+Sheet&annual http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=BT+Balance+Sheet&annual Also note: the price of copper was higher in March 2011 than it is now. http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/copper_historical_large.html http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/copper_historical_large.ht...
rmc 15y ago
It wouldn't work in practice. BT is legally required to provide phone service, so you couldn't just buy the company and stop providing phone service on economic grounds.
dazzla 15y ago
How about pulling fiber through instead of a string assuming the copper is worth more than the fiber? Clear some debt as well as covering the cost of the fiber and upgrade the network at the same time.
wslh 15y ago
In Argentina we had it first! http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2010/10/cable-stolen-for-its-copper.html http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2010/10/cable-stolen-for-its-copp... In 2008 someone stole a bronze from our building!

91 points by fvbock 15y ago

I used to think that designing railway signals must be the hardest problem in engineering, because every time I'm delayed on a train (a pretty common occurrence in the UK) the announcement blames it on a "signal failure". Then I found out that the problem is caused by an epidemic of metal theft on the railways!

pbhjpbhj 15y ago
It's becoming a big problem in the UK - my parents phone and broadband was down for about a week when their (rural) wires were stripped. The thieves get a truck, tie on the cable and drive, rips the whole thing out the [shallow ditch in the] ground, wrap it up and sell it ... then they come back a week later, when the cable has been replaced, and do it again. Someone tried to steal the gas pipes from a business premises in my city, left gas leaking in to the building for 24 hours or so, didn't even manage to make off with the pipe. Morons.
- chris11 15y ago
  I worked for awhile at a local power coop. My boss had to go into court one day because someone was caught trying to steal copper from a substation. The guy was lucky he didn't kill himself.
  - seabee 15y ago
    People do die for it[0] [1]. Not to sound too flippant but the lengths they go to just to steal some wire is genuinely shocking. Do they not appreciate the dangers? [0] http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1090905_metal_thief_found_dead_under_pylon http://menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/s/1090905_m... [1] http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/substation_electrocution_tragedy_two_men_admit_burglary_1_459762 http://www.whtimes.co.uk/news/substation_electrocution_trage...
- ookware 15y ago
  Sign this petition to help fight this stupidty http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/406 http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/406
- jacques_chester 15y ago
  A lot of railway signalling is now done over fibre optics for this reason, with the odd side-effect that a number of rail companies are moonlighting as telcos.

asymmetric 15y ago

I gotta say I love El Reg's sarcastic style

shithead 15y ago
If I knew what an "attention metal" thief was, or just "attention metal", I'd agree. Effective sarcasm demands flawless execution, and they're losing that. Nowadays one can often find misspellings and sundry grammatical errors in their texts.
- rdw 15y ago
  I read The Reg ten years ago; spelling errors and screwups of all kinds were completely standard.

smoyer 15y ago

Telecom companies (including cable operators) are all about cash-flow. When you have a solid subscriber base, there's not an issue with carrying a lot of debt. What is a problem is that the younger generations aren't tied to having a land-line and the older generations are gradually following suit.

cperciva 15y ago

Tanenbaum pointed this out a couple decades ago with respect to AT&T: At one time, 80 percent of AT&T’s capital value was the copper in the local loops. AT&T was then, in effect, the world’s largest copper mine. Fortunately, this fact was not widely known in the investment community. Had it been known, some corporate raider might have bought AT&T, terminated all telephone service in the United States, ripped out all the wire, and sold the wire to a copper refiner to get a quick payback.

lurker19 15y ago
Did that analysis include the cost to dig for all that copper?
- rokhayakebe 15y ago
  You do not have to do much digging. Choose to end points not too far from each other. Cut the lines on one end. Attach a strong string on end A. Pull the wires from end B. Now you pulled the wires, and you also have a string that can be used later by another company wanting to use the tube (which you will sell btw).
Someone 15y ago
I guess that approach would have seen the price of copper sink rapidly and very deeply, as it would remove quite a bit of demand and would introduce a new supplier.
- jonknee 15y ago
  There would be plenty of demand--someone would be building a new phone network to service all those old AT&T customers.
  - rbranson 15y ago
    Ron Paul approves this message.

tomelgin 15y ago

Before you consider buying a company and selling off its assets, you have to realize that when you own a company you also own its debt, and that if you liquidate you have to pay off all that debt (unless you can pocket the cash and file for bankruptcy, not generally legal). This info is publicly available and quite a bit more accurate that the Register's napkin math. As of March 31, 2011 (end of BT's last fiscal year), they owned $23bln (that's USD) in "Property Plant & Equipment" (including all the copper in question) and held $35bln in liabilities. [1]http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=BT+Balance+Sheet&annual http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bs?s=BT+Balance+Sheet&annual Also note: the price of copper was higher in March 2011 than it is now. http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/copper_historical_large.html http://www.kitcometals.com/charts/copper_historical_large.ht...

rmc 15y ago

It wouldn't work in practice. BT is legally required to provide phone service, so you couldn't just buy the company and stop providing phone service on economic grounds.

dazzla 15y ago

How about pulling fiber through instead of a string assuming the copper is worth more than the fiber? Clear some debt as well as covering the cost of the fiber and upgrade the network at the same time.

wslh 15y ago

In Argentina we had it first! http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2010/10/cable-stolen-for-its-copper.html http://ferfal.blogspot.com/2010/10/cable-stolen-for-its-copp... In 2008 someone stole a bronze from our building!