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Woman appears cured of HIV after umbilical-cord blood transplant
- nabaraz 5y agoBypass paywall: https://archive.is/wip/tbRwS https://archive.is/wip/tbRwS
- voz_ 5y agoI am somehow failing the captcha. If anyone has another bypass, that would be appreciated.
- 14 5y agohttps://archive.is/tbRwS https://archive.is/tbRwS
- malermeister 5y agohttps://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome Never worry about paywalls again :-)
- jorpal 5y agoMy wife is 33 weeks pregnant with our first. We plan to donate our baby’s cord blood to research. Cool to think it could help researchers develop treatments like this in some small way!
- JacobThreeThree 5y agoDid you consider freezing for future use?
- The_rationalist 5y ago
- jorpal 5y agoI know some people keep the cord blood in a private bank. In my opinion it only makes sense if you have family history of or current relative with a disease that could be treated with it. Since the hospital we are using (Stanford LPCH) has a research program that will come collect it with no extra steps on our side, it seemed like a good choice.
- inglor_cz 5y agoCord blood is a good source of "your own" stem cells. We do not know what is going to be possible with such cells 20 or 30 years from now; possibly unimaginable things. I would save them if I had a child. Just in case.
- musha68k 5y agoDo you happen to know what's the maximum storage time? I remember reading that it was about 10 years only?
- yread 5y agowe did it. It depends on the freezer. at -80C they say it's for a lifetime with a caveat that the technology is only 23 years old so none can prove it's for a lifetime, yet
- londons_explore 5y agoIf few other people save it, then nobody will develop treatments using it, since a treatment is only developed if it makes financial sense, and if <1% of potential patients for a treatment have cord blood banked, then a treatment that requires their personal cord blood will never be developed.
- noah_buddy 5y agoThere are many companies doing this now and many (affluent) parents are saving it. I think your analysis misses the mark, even if there's a niche market, if it's comprised of people willing to spend lots of money, it can make sense as a business.
- smnrchrds 5y agoThe umbilical cord blood storage industry is under-regulated and untrustworthy, much like another freezing-related industry, cryonics. Both are full of examples of amateurs, bad actors, and mundane issues like bankruptcy resulting in things that were promised to be kept frozen for decades or centuries ending up in waste disposal after 5 years. Like this example from Canada: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/cord-blood-bank-of-canada-owner-claims-samples-destroyed-1.6109959 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/cord-blood-bank-of-ca... Also, from the same article, does anyone has more information on this: > there's a very low probability that someone's own stem cells can be used to treat them, according to Health Canada.
- andy_ppp 5y agoThere was a YC startup on here attempting to do this... here we go: https://anjahealth.com https://anjahealth.com
- smnrchrds 5y agoI don't expect much in terms of longevity from any startup.
- devoutsalsa 5y ago“It’s been said that a person dies twice, once when the body dies & once when their name is last spoken. There’s also a third time, when the company storing your frozen corpse can’t pay the power bill.”
- pkukp9 5y agoI think freezing for future use is the best way to go. A few reasons: 1) cord blood transplants from related donors have higher survival rates than unrelated donors https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199708073370602 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199708073370602 2) this woman was lucky that she was able to find a partial match, but many don't. The combination of using a related blood donor + an unrelated cord blood donor was a lucky strike. I think for many very mixed race folks or especially people of color (specifically Black communities), they may not be so lucky 3) the cost of finding a donor can be extremely steep. Some may be covered by insurance, but not all of it will be. My guess is this woman who was cured from HIV is relatively affluent to some degree. Banking cord blood is considered to be for affluent folks, but the difference in cost of banking vs. finding a donor later on is massive
- skrbjc 5y agoIt's very healthy for your baby to delay cord clamping as long as possible
- jorpal 5y agoThanks for the tip! At our hospital the standard of care is delayed cord clamping, although it sounds like they wait only a few minutes, not 15+ minutes. It used to be done in ~<1 minute, I guess, so a few minutes is called delayed now. Do you have a good reference recommending to wait “long as possible”?
- throwntoday 5y agoWait until all the blood has passed through and the cord is white. Baby will likely be a little jaundiced but if you clamp too early they will have low blood levels. Don't let the hospital staff rush you (they will try). Best to let nature run its course IMO. Good luck to you and your partner.
- sersi 5y agoWrite a birth plan, make the doctor or hospital staff read it and confirm with them they read it. We had told the doctor we wanted delayed cord clamping (not the habit in hk), he acknowledged it despite warning us about jaundice (he was old fashioned). Then during the actual delivery, he completely forgot about it and both of us were too sleep deprived to force the issue.
- noveltyaccount 5y agoThis is why having a doula is so valuable. She had a clear head and advocated for us. I caught the baby and never would have asked. But the doula knew the correct time to remind the doctor.
- adolph 5y agoHere is more data on delay in cord clamping. https://www.acog.org/clinical/clinical-guidance/committee-opinion/articles/2020/12/delayed-umbilical-cord-clamping-after-birth https://www.acog.org/clinical/clinical-guidance/committee-op... because the placenta continues to perform gas exchange after delivery, sick and preterm infants are likely to benefit most from additional blood volume derived from continued placental transfusion.
- pkukp9 5y agoIn a perfect world, I think everyone has access to their own stem cells as opposed to sifting thru donor pool. Donating is definitely awesome, but there's a lot of research surrounding how cord blood transplantation from related donors (or yourself) increases your chance of survival from a stem cell transplant vs. using an unrelated donor. https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199708073370602 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm199708073370602 - there's a chance of rejection. This woman found a partial match, but she was lucky. I assume she's only 2 races or a common mix i.e. half white, half something else Finding a match later on can also be much more expensive than keeping your own!
- faeyanpiraat 5y agoHow can you store your own?
- pkukp9 5y agowith companies like mine haha AnjaHealth.com - we send parents a kit, they can collect, we pick it up and bring it to a lab, and parents can access it later in life
- beembeem 5y agoI've done this with my wisdom teeth when they needed to come out. I used this company: ndpl.net. There were a few competitors but it's been years since I looked into it. My stem cells are sitting in a lab, frozen, awaiting my command to send them anywhere in the world for medical treatment.
- MPSimmons 5y agoI still have some wisdom teeth way up and back. They were too far back to conveniently remove. Do they still have fetal stem-cells in them that can be harvested, if need be?
- beembeem 5y agoYes. As long as the pulp of the tooth is healthy. From what I've read, there's a tradeoff with time prior to removal however. The earlier in your life you take them out and freeze them, the higher their regeneration factor is. The DPSC (Dental Pulp Stem Cells) should always be there as long as the tooth is alive.
- Gollapalli 5y agoSo, ignorant question here, but isn't the cord blood supposed to go into the baby?
- Brotkrumen 5y agoAccording to the small pamphlet I got, there's a small benefit to the baby's immune system if the cord isn't cut immediately and some of the blood in there is allowed to pump into the baby.
- neonate 5y agohttps://archive.is/tbRwS https://archive.is/tbRwS
- dang 5y agoRecent and related: Launch HN: Anja Health (YC W22) – Freezing stem cells at birth for future health - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30305959 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30305959 - Feb 2022 (147 comments) (I wouldn't normally link to a Launch HN like that but this topic is so unusual and specific that I figure it counts as interesting.)
- mmastrac 5y agoTotally tangential, but this was a shocking sentence from that post... > plancentas are so valuable that physicians - especially in Europe - sometimes prefer to take them for themselves to sell to cosmetics research for ~$50k I wonder if there's a hybrid approach where you could share the placenta/umbilical cord w/other companies and get free storage.
- Alex3917 5y agoYou can donate cord blood for free to a public bank. Obviously you're not guaranteed that it won't be used by someone else before a sibling potentially needs it, but the chances of it being useful to your own family are almost zero anyway -- not exactly zero, but if you were making a list of the ways to best increase your life expectancy given $5k to spend, I doubt it would even make the top 1,000 options in terms of expected ROI.
- acchow 5y agoWhat would be some things you might expect to see in the top 50?
- Alex3917 5y agoThings generally related to diet, exercise, health, and education.
- acchow 5y agoI don't think of "exercise" as a "5k" investment. Sure you could buy 5k worth of equipment, but how much more does that improve your health over calisthenics and a set of dumbbells? Yes, education I'd say is in the top 10 or 50. But how can you possibly fill out the top 1000 without including umbilical cord stem cells?
- DoreenMichele 5y ago(stem cell) Transplants, which are risky and costly, are unlikely to be an option for HIV patients other than those who need them for treatment for diseases like cancer, Made me wonder if fasting might help. A quick search found anecdotal support for "definite maybe". https://www.quora.com/Can-prolonged-fasting-help-fight-HIV-AIDS https://www.quora.com/Can-prolonged-fasting-help-fight-HIV-A...
- lopis 5y agoHiv lives in your imune memory cells. I guess if you starve yourself into they die, you could get rid of it. Sounds drastic though.
- DoreenMichele 5y agoI didn't say get rid of it. I said help. And I provided a supporting link.
- Saint_Genet 5y agoA Quara link full of anecdotal evidence isn't really support for your thesis.
- DoreenMichele 5y agoIt's not a thesis. It's a comment on a discussion board.
- valarauko 5y agoIt's clear that the parent comment is using "thesis" = "premise/claim" in this context, and it's a reasonable use of the word.
- DoreenMichele 5y agoIt's an unreasonable standard though, one to which I seem to frequently be held for bullshit reasons that appear to me to boil down to "We refuse to believe that you know anything about health topics and also require you in specific to meet a higher standard than other posters just making conversation." It's a means to gatekeep me out of medical discussion because people don't like the idea that I'm getting healthier when doctors say that cannot be done and rather than engage in meaningful discussion, I fairly often receive a dismissive pile on of replies in a way that I do not believe is the norm for HN. I don't have to defend it or prove a claim. I didn't make a claim. I stated as clearly as I know how that it made me wonder x and so I did a search. This should not be drama of any sort. Other people routinely make conversation on medical topics and aren't given a hard time for it. Other people in this discussion are making conversation about donating cord blood to research. No one is required to be a medical professional to participate in medical discussion here. No one is required to defend their interest in such subjects. Except apparently me. Probably because of my personal situation and people having some issue with that.
- vmception 5y agoAre there any negatives of this mutated CCR5 gene? This article makes it seem like HIV can be cured or at least decimated in 100 days. I’m all for this STD whack-a-mole, just go down the list and revert to consequence freedom
- mmastrac 5y agoWill we ever get back to consequence freedom? "That" is a particularly successful reproduction strategy for viruses and bacteria to spread around. It feels like we'd just be waiting for the next epidemic.
- vmception 5y ago> Will we ever get back to consequence freedom? honestly I should rephrase because I don't think we've ever had it, maybe in some isolated societies pre-colonialism, but now we've never been closer even though sex-education is currently based on so much fear.
- mmastrac 5y agoI'm not sure it's fear, but rather caution and awareness of consequences. Things can spiral out of control fairly quickly if caution falls out of fashion. Two major precautions prevent the vast, vast majority of disease and pregnancy in virtually all situations.
- vmception 5y agoRoutine testing fixes most of issues too, many people just have a stigma of testing at all, let alone as often as they should. At this point, some forms of sex workers that have more partners are cleaner than the general population, just because they test often and fix things early. Which is worth saying because it is counterintuitive to what many people think will happen, linking promiscuity to negative health outcome (because they themselves don't test and just accumulate probabilities of infections). the line isn't preventing all exposure to disease, its fixing them when exposure occurs. and yes, combining both strategies of protection alongside testing + early fixing reduces the negative consequence even more even when not preventing absolute exposure to disease.
- hangonhn 5y agoInterestingly enough, the HIV virus has been repurposed to cure Leukemia (vs. Leukemia treatment used to fight HIV): https://www.focusforwardfilms.com/films/72/fire-with-fire https://www.focusforwardfilms.com/films/72/fire-with-fire IIRC the first patient of this treatment has recently marked 10 years in remissions.
- mleonhard 5y agoHere's an article about it: https://cei.org/blog/human-achievement-of-the-day-using-hiv-to-cure-leukemia/ https://cei.org/blog/human-achievement-of-the-day-using-hiv-... The hospital's own article about it: https://www.chop.edu/stories/relapsed-leukemia-emilys-story https://www.chop.edu/stories/relapsed-leukemia-emilys-story I could not find info on that particular trial. Here's one that is happening now: https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04276870 https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04276870 I found no details about how the treatment uses HIV. If it is used, it is used to modify the patient's T cells in the lab. So HIV is not curing leukemia, but it is used to prepare T cells which cure leukemia.
- hashimotonomora 5y agoWe’ll call it… T-virus!
- jl2718 5y agoThis brings up a funny memory. I had this idea in 4th grade when I learned about HIV but not how it was often acquired. Science teacher horrified at the suggestion of how to cure child Leukemia.
- mmastrac 5y agoHIV always seemed like the worst of the worst viruses to cure permanently, but it feels like we're making some serious headway here. Curing latent Chicken Pox, HPV, and the other common viruses would be a fantastic improvement over our vaccination boosters that are fantastic, but still probabilistic.
- blagie 5y agoPersonally, I'd like a vaccine for the common cold, much like the annual flu shot. Even if it doesn't cure it, but reduces symptoms and duration, I'd be happy.
- unfocussed_mike 5y agoI have always entertained a "what if?" question here: What if... the common cold is like a folk tradition of viruses that do us little harm and keep our immune system on its toes, and that as such a "cure for the common cold" is the wrong thing to want? To be clear I am no kind of biologist and I have no reason to believe this is anything other than a silly idea, but I still like it.
- onlyrealcuzzo 5y agoWhy can't we just take vaccines to keep training our immune system to be strong?
- Dowwie 5y agoWoman appears cured of HIV following HIV-resistant stem cell treatment
- sebow 5y agoUnrelated but while we're on this topic, people should also remember Alan Greene's gold talk [0] about cutting the umbilical-cord and how (not doing) it can save so many kids quite literally "for free".I don't want to sound insensitive here, and i somewhat smell that stem-cell treatment(s) will somewhat be used for "anti-aging" therapeutics for the well-off higher-class if they're not already;But before that we should still keep in mind that we can help kids or those people in need with serious conditions.I see people act disgusted by it, eat it, or other crazy sh1t, but it has an evolutionary role we cannot gloss over. [0] ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw53X98EvLQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cw53X98EvLQ )
- jl2718 5y agoI asked my doctor to delay cutting it for just a minute until it stopped pulsating. She went apoplectic. Observing his first 3 months, I strongly believe that he needed the iron. Next time, no doctors. The nurses were wonderful.
- Animats 5y agoWasn't this done once before via a bone marrow transplant?
- Kognito 5y agoYes, a few times if I recall correctly. It's just not particularly accessible treatment (for HIV) as it requires the complete destruction of the host immune system and essentially 're-growing' a new one - hence this is usually a pleasant side-effect of treating certain cancers.
- phkahler 5y agoIIRC that procedure has something like a 50/50 chance of not working and leaving the patient dead with no immune system. It's a hail Marry treatment for cancers that are about to kill you anyway. Really cool that using the right donor can cure HIV, but not useful as a general treatment at any cost due to the high failure rate.
- rincebrain 5y agoIIUC, the other people it's not quite as good - they still test positive but don't need to take antivirals, whereas the Berlin patient doesn't. [1] The suspicion of it requiring triggering GvHD is exceedingly terrifying as a dice roll, though. [1] - https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23431244-400-immune-war-with-donor-cells-after-transplant-may-wipe-out-hiv/ https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg23431244-400-immune-w...
- peter303 5y agoArticle says this is the 5th time. The headline is incorrect.
- xyst 5y agoglad to see some advancement in the gene therapy space. I think once people move past gene editing as "playing god", we will be able to get rid of advanced genetic diseases entirely (ie, muscular dystrophy) and edit our genes to be naturally resistant to todays and future diseases. Also I hope gene therapy becomes democratized. It shouldn't be limited to big Rx developing these solutions.
- 0x4d464d48 5y ago"I think once people move past gene editing as "playing god", we will be able to get rid of advanced genetic diseases entirely (ie, muscular dystrophy) and edit our genes to be naturally resistant to todays and future diseases." I think the "go fast and break things" mindset is scarier here than the debates about whether or not we have the right to play God.
- somesortofthing 5y agoI used to think this way but honestly, given how poorly nature does in terms of creating genetic material for new people, I've come to believe that we have a pretty big margin for error. The harm done by a gung-ho attitude toward gene editing has to be compared to the harm done by allowing the "natural" course of events to continue.
- 0x4d464d48 5y agoLook up elixir sulfanilamide and thalidomide. That's the sort of blood that writes regulations. Experimental medicine has a long, clumsy and cruel tradition.
- solveit 5y agoAnd nature has a long, clumsy, cruel tradition of killing literally everyone in various unpleasant ways, usually before their time. There is a tradeoff and "optimize for making sure we never ever ever repeat the thalidomide fiasco again" is not the best strategy to take.
- Decabytes 5y agoI feel like there have been so many advancements in the HIV space that have been coming together these past few years. I'm so excited by the progress that has been made and I hope one day we can eradicate it completely. Kudos to everyone who has been working towards this goal
- cuteboy19 5y agoPretty soon the question would shift from 'how do we do this' to 'how do we do this cheaply'
- bduerst 5y agoThe first HIV mRNA vaccine just started it's phase I trial on humans, only two weeks ago: https://investors.modernatx.com/news/news-details/2022/IAVI-and-Moderna-Launch-Trial-of-HIV-Vaccine-Antigens-Delivered-Through-mRNA-Technology/default.aspx https://investors.modernatx.com/news/news-details/2022/IAVI-... I have a feeling mRNA tech will be regarded as one of those medical discoveries on par with penicillin, but only time will tell.
- andy_ppp 5y agoWe haven't even started to see the potential for using the body to manufacture the drugs needed to fix all kinds of ailments. It's going to be a very interesting time that COVID has brought forward dramatically I'm guessing.
- nomel 5y ago> to manufacture the drugs needed This assumes that the drugs are proteins, correct?
- MathMonkeyMan 5y agoYes, which would put it in a pretty much different category of thing than is usually meant by "drug." On the other hand, how many times have you heard "works by binding to the same active site as <something the body produces>"? It'd be cool if we could get the body to produce more of that something.
- f6v 5y agoI wonder if a bone marrow transplant from resistant donor is going to be an option one day.
- abcc8 5y agoOne of the big issues with this approach is that you have to effectively kill the person's immune system with very high dose chemo before introducing the resistant bone marrow cells. While BM transplantation is routinely performed, there are instances where the transplant is not successful (for reasons other than HLA match, etc), with the failure of bone marrow engraftment being typically fatal. Given this, and that the current anti-retroviral drugs generally work pretty well (i.e. those taking the medication enjoy a reduced risk of mortality), this curative treatment might not be pursued.
- BizarroLand 5y agoIt's worked in the past at least twice, but then instead of well-controlled HIV you have to deal with Graft vs Host disease which is much more problematic. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/03/05/700361887/bone-marrow-transplant-renders-second-patient-free-of-hiv https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/03/05/7003618...
- peter303 5y agoA quarter of recipients die the first year after a bone marrow transplant. Survival taking AIDS drugs is much higher like 97%.
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- ianhawes 5y agoThis is amazing news. My only hope is that the recipient has been thoroughly vetted with a complete background check and panel interview to determine if they are worthy of such a cure[0]. /s [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/13/health/pig-heart-transplant-bennett.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/13/health/pig-heart-transpla...
- williamtrask 5y agoDownvoting - I don't support the idea that the criminal justice system should extend to the opportunity to be cured from certain diseases, particularly so long after the fact. It's a dangerous precedent.
- appletrotter 5y agoyou missed the /s
- nefitty 5y agoThe sarcasm squelched the intent of what you meant.
- 999900000999 5y agoI actually don't get the outrage on this, anyone willing to undergo an experimental procedure should be held as a hero. If this country didn't have an absolutely horrible criminal justice system, I would love something where inmates can sign up for experimental procedures in exchange for a full pardon. But knowing America, this was just encourage prosecutors to push inmates to get unnecessary procedures.
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- m463 5y agoI liked the joe rogan episode with Mel Gibson. #1066 - Mel Gibson & Dr. Neil Riordan Mel Gibson took his aging father to an america doctor in panama who harvests umbilical stem cells and it pretty much gave him a new lease on life. They also help with hard to heal injuries
- onychomys 5y agoEver wonder why a miracle doctor from America has to work in Panama? Yeah, it's because he spends a lot of time doing things that don't have much (any) evidence to back them up. https://www.skepdoc.info/beware-stem-cell-clinics-that-offer-untested-treatments/ https://www.skepdoc.info/beware-stem-cell-clinics-that-offer...
- mateus1 5y agoPlease don't take your scientific news from Joe Rogan. Science Vs. podcast has just released a great episode on the kinds of misinformation spread there... https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/49hngng https://gimletmedia.com/shows/science-vs/49hngng
- rzz3 5y agoIt doesn’t make it any less interesting. His entire show isn’t literally lies. But of course, everything should be taken with a heavy grain of salt. It’s just as fallacious to assume every single thing is false simply because you don’t like or trust a podcast host. It’s hit or miss in my experience.
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- smm11 5y agoI'm thinking of a certain political party that will strike this down.
- sudobash1 5y agoI assume that you are referring to Republicans and medical procedures related to abortion. If so, I don't think there is anything with regards to this procedure which requires an umbilical cord from an aborted fetus. Additionally, most pro-life/anti-abortion groups seem to be highly supportive of umbilical cord treatments. Searching online turned up many sites like this: https://www.prolifewi.org/cord-blood https://www.prolifewi.org/cord-blood
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- swayvil 5y agoWell we already have (a carefully undocumented number of) bloodboys. And organ banks full of political prisoners. The next obvious step is to grind up babies into health-smoothy.
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