4 ms·

Stop normalizing censorship. No, "anyone" will not immediately shut down anything that exposes a legal liability.

mschuster91 5y ago
> Stop normalizing censorship. We're talking about pedophiles and fraud here. Stuff that is illegal everywhere in the civilized world. As for the Daily Stormer and the xChan projects: the stuff hosted there also violates laws, holocaust denial or many forms of antisemitism are a crime in most of the European Union. And the only people calling that "censorship"... well, they tend to be Nazis or have no problem supporting Nazis.
- inglor_cz 5y ago
  Remember the time when the ACLU fought for the right of American Nazis to march in Skokie, Illinois? The leader of the ACLU at that time was a Jewish guy. He didn't like the American Nazis, but he recognized that the bureaucratic machinery used to prevent them from assembling was almost entirely identical to the bureaucratic machinery used against the civil rights movement in the South.
  - Kye 5y ago
    The ACLU has a broader strategy in mind with the cases it picks and a century-long track record of winning key civil rights victories that benefit everyone. I don't think that could be said of most people or platforms that want to publish all speech without discretion, discernment, or commentary.
  - sofixa 5y ago
    And you should know that the world has evolved since then. A Nazi website today had drastically more reach than a Nazi march in a small town decades ago. The fact that the ACLU decided to take a principled stance for specific reasons doesn't negate the dangers of letting Nazis fester.
    - inglor_cz 5y ago
      I don't think that any extreme ideology should be just ignored, but going after websites sounds like a cop-out. It is my opinion that extreme ideologies tend to take hold among people who feel left out, disenfranchised or see no future for them and their families. The original Nazis were nobodies in the roaring economy of the Weimar Republic. Their support soared when the Great Crisis hit. This is a familiar story; Lenin got to power in Russia after the country was almost destroyed in a senseless war. Contemporary Germany seems to have the worst neo-Nazi problem in bleak places like Hoyerswerda or Chemnitz, where the local economy doesn't have any good jobs for less qualified youths. But this is an order of magnitude harder to solve than banning fora online.
- baobabKoodaa 5y ago
  This is false. If you look up the grandparent comment, you will see that they very clearly stated "anything" that will cause a legal liability. They did not say "only actually illegal things" that cause a legal liability, they said "anything". Most things which will cause a legal liability are legal (not illegal). So your claim that this discussion would be only referencing illegal things is simply false. Also, I do not believe that the ACLU are nazis.

> Stop normalizing censorship. We're talking about pedophiles and fraud here. Stuff that is illegal everywhere in the civilized world. As for the Daily Stormer and the xChan projects: the stuff hosted there also violates laws, holocaust denial or many forms of antisemitism are a crime in most of the European Union. And the only people calling that "censorship"... well, they tend to be Nazis or have no problem supporting Nazis.

inglor_cz 5y ago
Remember the time when the ACLU fought for the right of American Nazis to march in Skokie, Illinois? The leader of the ACLU at that time was a Jewish guy. He didn't like the American Nazis, but he recognized that the bureaucratic machinery used to prevent them from assembling was almost entirely identical to the bureaucratic machinery used against the civil rights movement in the South.
- Kye 5y ago
  The ACLU has a broader strategy in mind with the cases it picks and a century-long track record of winning key civil rights victories that benefit everyone. I don't think that could be said of most people or platforms that want to publish all speech without discretion, discernment, or commentary.
- sofixa 5y ago
  And you should know that the world has evolved since then. A Nazi website today had drastically more reach than a Nazi march in a small town decades ago. The fact that the ACLU decided to take a principled stance for specific reasons doesn't negate the dangers of letting Nazis fester.
  - inglor_cz 5y ago
    I don't think that any extreme ideology should be just ignored, but going after websites sounds like a cop-out. It is my opinion that extreme ideologies tend to take hold among people who feel left out, disenfranchised or see no future for them and their families. The original Nazis were nobodies in the roaring economy of the Weimar Republic. Their support soared when the Great Crisis hit. This is a familiar story; Lenin got to power in Russia after the country was almost destroyed in a senseless war. Contemporary Germany seems to have the worst neo-Nazi problem in bleak places like Hoyerswerda or Chemnitz, where the local economy doesn't have any good jobs for less qualified youths. But this is an order of magnitude harder to solve than banning fora online.
baobabKoodaa 5y ago
This is false. If you look up the grandparent comment, you will see that they very clearly stated "anything" that will cause a legal liability. They did not say "only actually illegal things" that cause a legal liability, they said "anything". Most things which will cause a legal liability are legal (not illegal). So your claim that this discussion would be only referencing illegal things is simply false. Also, I do not believe that the ACLU are nazis.