9 ms·

It's how the Reddit spam filter works. Once your account is flagged as spam by the system, it would be global shadowbanned automacially. At this stage, your acc

It's how the Reddit spam filter works. Once your account is flagged as spam by the system, it would be global shadowbanned automacially. At this stage, your account is essentially finished, it's basically impossible to talk to someone and get your account unblocked. Eventually the account would be deleted, all the post you've ever made would also be gone in the worst-case scenario, just like my previous account. My Reddit account was banned because I was posting from Tor. I've registered successfully via Tor and was able to use it without any problems for 6 months or so. One day, I was suddenly shadowbanned. I guess it was because the exit node I happened to be using that day was on a "kill on sight" spam blocklist. I always posted in good faith and never got into any flamewar, a few links I shared were well-received by the subs. Recently it almost happened again with my current account, but this time I was not global shadowbanned and it seemed to be just a local spam filter (many subreddits have their own anti-spam policies and auto-moderation queues). I sent a message to the Subreddit admin and I was able to post again. But after this incident I've completely stopped accessing my Reddit account via Tor.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
profmonocle 5y ago
> At this stage, your account is essentially finished, it's basically impossible to talk to someone and get your account unblocked. Seems like they're following Google's strategy. Presumably, ad profit from each individual user is low enough that it's cheaper to accept false positives in their anti-abuse mechanism than it is to provide a functioning appeal process. Maybe if the user manages to go viral on Twitter or HN with their story they could get it reversed. Going viral with stories of false-positive bans is the primary way to restore a Google account, it probably works for Reddit too. Normal people have to suck eggs. At least losing a Reddit account is less life-disrupting for most people than losing their Google account.
- eyeball 5y ago
  Is Google banning accounts just for vpn usage?
  - beckman466 5y ago
    why wouldn't they? modern browsers constantly snitch on all sorts of things, including IP addresses (I say 'snitch' because so few people outside the industry are aware of even this basic fact/practice), so it's not unlikely they would have some automated banning tool. and the banned google accounts we hear about when some knowledge worker on here goes viral have fallen victim to those tools/systems.
  - profmonocle 5y ago
    I don't know about VPNs specifically, but stories of Google handing out automated, unappealable permabans are rampant. There's one on the front page of HN right now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30345201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30345201 Entirely possible that user will get their account back since they won the social media lottery, but for every viral story there are god knows how many people out there who lost all their email/photos/etc. because of some inscrutable machine's mistake.
- StevePerkins 5y ago
  It's the strategy of all the major social players. Several months ago I followed a new cardistry (look it up) personality on Instagram. I scrolled through and "liked" one or two dozen of their performance clips, out of the hundreds that they've posted. My Instagram account was blocked, for "manipulation" or some verbiage like that. Basically, the algorithm thought that I was a bot hired to inflate that person's numbers. The Instagram appeals process is to email them a selfie, holding a piece of paper with the current date and something else written on it. I did this, but never got any kind of response. My Instagram account that I had for 5-10 years is just gone. Turned out to be a blessing in disguise. I created a new account attached to the same phone and email address (somehow THIS isn't detected as abuse?). But I just lost interest in the app, and life seems to be better now for having done so. If Reddit ever nukes me, then it would be the kick in the ass that I need to stop wasting time on that toxic site as well.
  - datavirtue 5y ago
    Delete your email address from your profile. That got my ten year account banned.
    - extra88 5y ago
      Sounds like something someone who's going to sell their account would do.
      - FollowingTheDao 5y ago
        "Using encryption, sounds like something a criminal would do." Yes, that is what this sounds like. iI have another idea why Reddit does not like VPN. They cannot monetize your data as easily.
        extra88 5y ago
        I was answering the unasked question of why Reddit would care if someone removed the email address associated with their account.
- fluidcruft 5y ago
  I recently learned about the kik strategy for handling child porn via Darknet Diaries[1]. If you can't actually tell anyone at kik about child porn, kik can't know about it and if nobody at kik knows about it then they're apparently not required to do anything about it. [1] https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/93/ https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/93/
  - JohnHaugeland 5y ago
    This is astonishingly illegal. What needs to happen is for someone who has a report to make to contact the state attorney general and say "because this company is profiting from child pornography with no reporting mechanism, they have lost their safe harbor protection, and are complicit." Companies like this need to be taught at the metaphorical end of a rifle.
    - fluidcruft 5y ago
      Yeah, I think that's basically what the FBI agent they interviewed said. There's nothing for him to do and it would be entirely up to prosecutors to do anything. Part of the wrench is that kik can show that they do some sort of things that possibly qualify as "moderation" under the law. Things like auto-banning bots. So in court has apparently successfully kik has made the claim that they do moderate based on things like this so that checks the safe harbor requirement apparently. But... all the people they claim to have on their "Safety Board" haven't worked for kik for years and all efforts to contact anyone on twitter or anywhere fail. Even DMCA takedowns of revenge porn were being ignored now. It seems to be a dead platform that nevertheless gets app updates uploaded so something is still going on somewhere by someone. Basically the only option they were discussing was getting the app removed from Google and Apple stores and they compared the situation to Parler where the app was pulled for failing to moderate. And yet kik seems to get a pass somehow. It's a very disturbing and frustrating episode.
      - hedora 5y ago
        This would be easy to prosecute, assuming the allegations are true. They don’t have a working DMCA contact, so they lose safe harbor. They could have the lawyer testify that her client’s underage nudes and related dmca takedowns were never removed, despite court order to take them down. That’s obviously not a special case, so they could spot check a few dozen prior cases, and show non-compliance for those too. Of course, doing that would cut off a stream of easy pedophile convictions. The prosecutor’s office might like the status quo. It certainly helps increase their metrics.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
krono 5y ago
Shadow banning is such a disgusting practice. It's basically sweeping the "problem" under the rug, whilst leaving the "problem" completely in the dark with regards to what it was they did wrong. It's lazy, it's abusive, and it should be illegal. Edit: to clarify, I'm totally fine with this tool being employed to combat spam(bots). Just not against normal posters/contributors.
- andybak 5y ago
  I think dang might disagree with you there. Also "illegal" is a little over the top. Are we talking misdemeanor or felony, here?
  - krono 5y ago
    I totally get it when it's used solely to combat spam(bots), but, at least on Reddit, this tool's use has become too widespread and hits too many normal community contributors. Edit: I'd just like it to be not allowed by law to hopefully curtail its use. I don't really care about what the repercussions of doing it anyway might look like.
  - macinjosh 5y ago
    Who cares what dang thinks. He’s petty like the Reddit mods are.
    - kylebenzle 5y ago
- Fnoord 5y ago
  Its a great tool to combat nefarious personae (both bots and humans). Its like a tarpit for smtpd/sshd (spamd on OpenBSD). Reddit is a free service to use, so it stands within reason their support dept. (which you'd contact concerning (shadow)bans) is sub-par. For paid subscribers, I would want my money (and time) back.
  - 5y ago
beckman466 5y ago
> Recently it almost happened again with my current account (Reddit allows the creation of multiple usernames using the same email address,) were your two different accounts that were (1) permanently banned and (2) temporarily banned using the same email address?
- vorejdajo 5y ago
  Just a PSA: Email is entirely optional. You can create multiple accounts without email.
  - datavirtue 5y ago
    I had a ten year old account that was banned for not having an email address. There were various warnings asking me to supply the email address. I refused and the account was deleted. No issues other than this.
    - segfaultbuserr 5y ago
      Take your E-mail address seriously. After a security incident, Reddit sysadmins may force an E-mail verification and password reset. I lost my first Reddit account (Yes, I lost two Reddit accounts) because of that - the E-mail address was gone since a long time ago but I didn't bother to change that, so I couldn't complete the verification.
- segfaultbuserr 5y ago
  > Reddit allows the creation of multiple usernames using the same email address Interesting, didn't know that. But the E-mail addresses are different. My previous account was initially shadowbanned without notice (all posts auto-filtered, and if I remember it correctly, it was a global shadowban on all subreddits) so I had stopping using that account. Weeks later I checked again and it became permanently banned explicitly. The system said, > Your account has been permanently suspended for breaking the rules. This account has been permanently closed. To continue using Reddit, please log out and create a new account (the username [REDACTED] cannot be reused). This is an automated message; responses will not be received by Reddit admins. My current account in question was temporarily shadowbanned. I was able to post in a subreddit without problems, and one day I was suddenly shadowbanned. But it was not a global one because I was able to post in another subreddit, so I suspect it was just an Auto-Moderation filter. After I sent a message to the mod of that subreddit (not Reddit admins) and stopped logging in via Tor, the account went back to normal again. But I never actually received a reply from the mod, I'm not sure how exactly I got unbanned - automatically due to a "good" IP, or manually by a mod.
gruez 5y ago
>Once your account is flagged as spam by the system, it would be global shadowbanned automacially. At this stage, your account is essentially finished, it's basically impossible to talk to someone and get your account unblocked. FWIW I had that happen to me a year or two ago and was able to get the ban overturned.
- segfaultbuserr 5y ago
  Interesting. How did you do that? Does the "Contact US" form really work?
  - gruez 5y ago
    https://www.reddit.com/appeals https://www.reddit.com/appeals
fluidcruft 5y ago
Shadowbans are different from permanent bans or suspensions the OP has gotten. You at least you know you are banned when you're permabanned/suspended. Reddit claimed at one large incident of outrage over shadowbans that shadowbans were only intended for bots and that no actual humans should ever be shadowbanned and that they would rectify it after messaging admin. My account randomly got shadowbanned a few months ago and I got crickets via support/admin. They really don't give a shit and it shows in the quality of the content and comments.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  If your account gets shadow banned and you don't notice does it really matter? You are still getting something out or you wouldn't keep posting. Sometimes just posting to yourself is enough. Say you do notice, you just start a new account for free. Bonus points for moving identities and breaking existing tracking history. Getting banned can be a win/win
jokoon 5y ago
Why were you using Tor?
- segfaultbuserr 5y ago
  Mainly because I hate trackers. These days I'm using Tor for at least half of my web browsing. My desktop also runs QubesOS, the web browsers (both Tor Browser and the regular browser) are in their own disposable VMs. Once the window is closed, the system is reset and whatever cookies or exploits would all be gone permanently.
- FollowingTheDao 5y ago
  Why aren't you using Tor?
  - meepmorp 5y ago
    It's slow af and various site traffic blocking tools get triggered by it.
  - jokoon 5y ago
    Logging in websites while using tor is completely useless.
DebtDeflation 5y ago
>basically impossible to talk to someone and get your account unblocked Not sure it would even matter. I once submitted a breaking news story to /r/news and it was autodeleted by their bot. I messaged a mod asking why it was deleted since it was in fact news and was not a duplicate and their response was to tell me I'm stupid and to permaban me from the sub.
- segfaultbuserr 5y ago
  These are completely different issues. I was talking about a network-wide ban performed automatically by Reddit server-side anti-spam mechanisms, it's not about the internal policies or moderations (whether auto or manual) of a specific subreddit.
- dotancohen 5y ago
  I've had this happen. The top post on /r/worldnews was an Israeli "attack on Gaza", with no mention of the rocket attack on Israel an hour prior. I posted a link to a site - an English-language Arabic news site, mind you - that stated that the Israeli "attack on Gaza" was a precision strike against the military target that fired rockets at Israel earlier in the day. My submission was deleted, my account was banned from the sub.
brodouevencode 5y ago
> impossible to talk to someone and get your account unblocked Hence why Reddit will only and ever remain a tool for consumer to consumer communication, and why a business would be stupid to use it as a primary marketing channel.
quenix 5y ago
Doesn’t reflect my experience. Created new reddit account once and noticed its content was getting 0 engagement anywhere, ever. Contacted support, and in two weeks or so, they replied apologising because the account “mistakenly tripped their spam filters”. Account is now unshadowbanned

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

profmonocle 5y ago

> At this stage, your account is essentially finished, it's basically impossible to talk to someone and get your account unblocked. Seems like they're following Google's strategy. Presumably, ad profit from each individual user is low enough that it's cheaper to accept false positives in their anti-abuse mechanism than it is to provide a functioning appeal process. Maybe if the user manages to go viral on Twitter or HN with their story they could get it reversed. Going viral with stories of false-positive bans is the primary way to restore a Google account, it probably works for Reddit too. Normal people have to suck eggs. At least losing a Reddit account is less life-disrupting for most people than losing their Google account.

eyeball 5y ago
Is Google banning accounts just for vpn usage?
- beckman466 5y ago
  why wouldn't they? modern browsers constantly snitch on all sorts of things, including IP addresses (I say 'snitch' because so few people outside the industry are aware of even this basic fact/practice), so it's not unlikely they would have some automated banning tool. and the banned google accounts we hear about when some knowledge worker on here goes viral have fallen victim to those tools/systems.
- profmonocle 5y ago
  I don't know about VPNs specifically, but stories of Google handing out automated, unappealable permabans are rampant. There's one on the front page of HN right now: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30345201 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30345201 Entirely possible that user will get their account back since they won the social media lottery, but for every viral story there are god knows how many people out there who lost all their email/photos/etc. because of some inscrutable machine's mistake.
StevePerkins 5y ago
It's the strategy of all the major social players. Several months ago I followed a new cardistry (look it up) personality on Instagram. I scrolled through and "liked" one or two dozen of their performance clips, out of the hundreds that they've posted. My Instagram account was blocked, for "manipulation" or some verbiage like that. Basically, the algorithm thought that I was a bot hired to inflate that person's numbers. The Instagram appeals process is to email them a selfie, holding a piece of paper with the current date and something else written on it. I did this, but never got any kind of response. My Instagram account that I had for 5-10 years is just gone. Turned out to be a blessing in disguise. I created a new account attached to the same phone and email address (somehow THIS isn't detected as abuse?). But I just lost interest in the app, and life seems to be better now for having done so. If Reddit ever nukes me, then it would be the kick in the ass that I need to stop wasting time on that toxic site as well.
- datavirtue 5y ago
  Delete your email address from your profile. That got my ten year account banned.
  - extra88 5y ago
    Sounds like something someone who's going to sell their account would do.
    - FollowingTheDao 5y ago
      "Using encryption, sounds like something a criminal would do." Yes, that is what this sounds like. iI have another idea why Reddit does not like VPN. They cannot monetize your data as easily.
      - extra88 5y ago
        I was answering the unasked question of why Reddit would care if someone removed the email address associated with their account.
fluidcruft 5y ago
I recently learned about the kik strategy for handling child porn via Darknet Diaries[1]. If you can't actually tell anyone at kik about child porn, kik can't know about it and if nobody at kik knows about it then they're apparently not required to do anything about it. [1] https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/93/ https://darknetdiaries.com/episode/93/
- JohnHaugeland 5y ago
  This is astonishingly illegal. What needs to happen is for someone who has a report to make to contact the state attorney general and say "because this company is profiting from child pornography with no reporting mechanism, they have lost their safe harbor protection, and are complicit." Companies like this need to be taught at the metaphorical end of a rifle.
  - fluidcruft 5y ago
    Yeah, I think that's basically what the FBI agent they interviewed said. There's nothing for him to do and it would be entirely up to prosecutors to do anything. Part of the wrench is that kik can show that they do some sort of things that possibly qualify as "moderation" under the law. Things like auto-banning bots. So in court has apparently successfully kik has made the claim that they do moderate based on things like this so that checks the safe harbor requirement apparently. But... all the people they claim to have on their "Safety Board" haven't worked for kik for years and all efforts to contact anyone on twitter or anywhere fail. Even DMCA takedowns of revenge porn were being ignored now. It seems to be a dead platform that nevertheless gets app updates uploaded so something is still going on somewhere by someone. Basically the only option they were discussing was getting the app removed from Google and Apple stores and they compared the situation to Parler where the app was pulled for failing to moderate. And yet kik seems to get a pass somehow. It's a very disturbing and frustrating episode.
    - hedora 5y ago
      This would be easy to prosecute, assuming the allegations are true. They don’t have a working DMCA contact, so they lose safe harbor. They could have the lawyer testify that her client’s underage nudes and related dmca takedowns were never removed, despite court order to take them down. That’s obviously not a special case, so they could spot check a few dozen prior cases, and show non-compliance for those too. Of course, doing that would cut off a stream of easy pedophile convictions. The prosecutor’s office might like the status quo. It certainly helps increase their metrics.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

krono 5y ago

Shadow banning is such a disgusting practice. It's basically sweeping the "problem" under the rug, whilst leaving the "problem" completely in the dark with regards to what it was they did wrong. It's lazy, it's abusive, and it should be illegal. Edit: to clarify, I'm totally fine with this tool being employed to combat spam(bots). Just not against normal posters/contributors.

andybak 5y ago
I think dang might disagree with you there. Also "illegal" is a little over the top. Are we talking misdemeanor or felony, here?
- krono 5y ago
  I totally get it when it's used solely to combat spam(bots), but, at least on Reddit, this tool's use has become too widespread and hits too many normal community contributors. Edit: I'd just like it to be not allowed by law to hopefully curtail its use. I don't really care about what the repercussions of doing it anyway might look like.
- macinjosh 5y ago
  Who cares what dang thinks. He’s petty like the Reddit mods are.
  - kylebenzle 5y ago
Fnoord 5y ago
Its a great tool to combat nefarious personae (both bots and humans). Its like a tarpit for smtpd/sshd (spamd on OpenBSD). Reddit is a free service to use, so it stands within reason their support dept. (which you'd contact concerning (shadow)bans) is sub-par. For paid subscribers, I would want my money (and time) back.
- 5y ago

beckman466 5y ago

> Recently it almost happened again with my current account (Reddit allows the creation of multiple usernames using the same email address,) were your two different accounts that were (1) permanently banned and (2) temporarily banned using the same email address?

vorejdajo 5y ago
Just a PSA: Email is entirely optional. You can create multiple accounts without email.
- datavirtue 5y ago
  I had a ten year old account that was banned for not having an email address. There were various warnings asking me to supply the email address. I refused and the account was deleted. No issues other than this.
  - segfaultbuserr 5y ago
    Take your E-mail address seriously. After a security incident, Reddit sysadmins may force an E-mail verification and password reset. I lost my first Reddit account (Yes, I lost two Reddit accounts) because of that - the E-mail address was gone since a long time ago but I didn't bother to change that, so I couldn't complete the verification.
segfaultbuserr 5y ago
> Reddit allows the creation of multiple usernames using the same email address Interesting, didn't know that. But the E-mail addresses are different. My previous account was initially shadowbanned without notice (all posts auto-filtered, and if I remember it correctly, it was a global shadowban on all subreddits) so I had stopping using that account. Weeks later I checked again and it became permanently banned explicitly. The system said, > Your account has been permanently suspended for breaking the rules. This account has been permanently closed. To continue using Reddit, please log out and create a new account (the username [REDACTED] cannot be reused). This is an automated message; responses will not be received by Reddit admins. My current account in question was temporarily shadowbanned. I was able to post in a subreddit without problems, and one day I was suddenly shadowbanned. But it was not a global one because I was able to post in another subreddit, so I suspect it was just an Auto-Moderation filter. After I sent a message to the mod of that subreddit (not Reddit admins) and stopped logging in via Tor, the account went back to normal again. But I never actually received a reply from the mod, I'm not sure how exactly I got unbanned - automatically due to a "good" IP, or manually by a mod.

gruez 5y ago

>Once your account is flagged as spam by the system, it would be global shadowbanned automacially. At this stage, your account is essentially finished, it's basically impossible to talk to someone and get your account unblocked. FWIW I had that happen to me a year or two ago and was able to get the ban overturned.

segfaultbuserr 5y ago
Interesting. How did you do that? Does the "Contact US" form really work?
- gruez 5y ago
  https://www.reddit.com/appeals https://www.reddit.com/appeals

fluidcruft 5y ago

Shadowbans are different from permanent bans or suspensions the OP has gotten. You at least you know you are banned when you're permabanned/suspended. Reddit claimed at one large incident of outrage over shadowbans that shadowbans were only intended for bots and that no actual humans should ever be shadowbanned and that they would rectify it after messaging admin. My account randomly got shadowbanned a few months ago and I got crickets via support/admin. They really don't give a shit and it shows in the quality of the content and comments.

ipaddr 5y ago
If your account gets shadow banned and you don't notice does it really matter? You are still getting something out or you wouldn't keep posting. Sometimes just posting to yourself is enough. Say you do notice, you just start a new account for free. Bonus points for moving identities and breaking existing tracking history. Getting banned can be a win/win

jokoon 5y ago

Why were you using Tor?

segfaultbuserr 5y ago
Mainly because I hate trackers. These days I'm using Tor for at least half of my web browsing. My desktop also runs QubesOS, the web browsers (both Tor Browser and the regular browser) are in their own disposable VMs. Once the window is closed, the system is reset and whatever cookies or exploits would all be gone permanently.
FollowingTheDao 5y ago
Why aren't you using Tor?
- meepmorp 5y ago
  It's slow af and various site traffic blocking tools get triggered by it.
- jokoon 5y ago
  Logging in websites while using tor is completely useless.

DebtDeflation 5y ago

>basically impossible to talk to someone and get your account unblocked Not sure it would even matter. I once submitted a breaking news story to /r/news and it was autodeleted by their bot. I messaged a mod asking why it was deleted since it was in fact news and was not a duplicate and their response was to tell me I'm stupid and to permaban me from the sub.

segfaultbuserr 5y ago
These are completely different issues. I was talking about a network-wide ban performed automatically by Reddit server-side anti-spam mechanisms, it's not about the internal policies or moderations (whether auto or manual) of a specific subreddit.
dotancohen 5y ago
I've had this happen. The top post on /r/worldnews was an Israeli "attack on Gaza", with no mention of the rocket attack on Israel an hour prior. I posted a link to a site - an English-language Arabic news site, mind you - that stated that the Israeli "attack on Gaza" was a precision strike against the military target that fired rockets at Israel earlier in the day. My submission was deleted, my account was banned from the sub.

brodouevencode 5y ago

> impossible to talk to someone and get your account unblocked Hence why Reddit will only and ever remain a tool for consumer to consumer communication, and why a business would be stupid to use it as a primary marketing channel.

quenix 5y ago

Doesn’t reflect my experience. Created new reddit account once and noticed its content was getting 0 engagement anywhere, ever. Contacted support, and in two weeks or so, they replied apologising because the account “mistakenly tripped their spam filters”. Account is now unshadowbanned