11 ms·

Video Game Project Management Anti-Patterns [pdf]

96 points by Hard_Space 5y ago

afpx 5y ago
Underestimated Tasks Feature Creep Death March Feature Cuts Understaffed Team Underbudgeted Project Neglected [...] Design Working on Multiple Projects Yep, pretty much sums up my career, so far.
- kqr 5y ago
  Wait both adding and removing features are anti-patterns? Is waterfall the solution, then? Where finally we know exactly which features work well together before we write the first line of code?
  - justinlloyd 5y ago
    Adding features means unplanned work whilst in development, and usually quite late in to development. Removing features means wasted effort, hopefully at the design stage, but usually much later, after art has been created and code written.
    - kqr 5y ago
      On the other hand, not adding important features you failed to plan for means leaving puddles of customer value on the floor. Similarly, not removing unnecessary features means pouring even more wasted effort into something worth nothing.
      - justinlloyd 5y ago
        Oh, I'm not saying these aspects don't have value, merely pointing out to the GP what they mean, and are not mutually exclusive on the same project.
  - Jensson 5y ago
    Those are just items to blame when the game fails. Scenario: One team in the project is under delivering. Cut scope and the game fails due to missing vital features, "the game failed since we cut the scope!". Don't cut scope and the game fails due to bugs or delays "the game failed since we didn't cut scope!". Both of those are the wrong answer, its just that people don't want to admit the real answer here.
- Nemrod67 5y ago
  I'm on my third attempt to get (kinda) the same game out in 10 years, I actually have a shot now (better design, reduced scope, better effects, loving companion). But sometimes I wonder if Jeff Vogel might be right when he says "please do something else with your life if you're not crazy about games" XD
  - Cthulhu_ 5y ago
    It's too easy to fall into the trap of polishing to perfection, or going back to the drawing board. I found working with Pico-8 pretty liberating, in that you're really limited in your options and toolkit. I'd get stuck in analysis paralysis if I were to build a game, I think.
chii 5y ago
Interesting paper. However, the "solutions" to some of the problems aren't really useful - e.g., the problem of excess scope has the solution of "reduce scope"; and the problem of under-estimated tasks has the solution of "estimate better". i guess it's useful to know the failure modes of projects, but would really like a real study on how projects that succeed navigate away from failure modes. use google viewer if you don't want to download the pdf directly: https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=arxiv.org/pdf/2202.06183.pdf https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=arxiv.org/pdf/22...
- reitzensteinm 5y ago
  Especially as reduced scope might torpedo the entire reason for the game to exist. A buggy game with a large scope may be orders of magnitude more successful than a well made small game.
  - p1necone 5y ago
    Yeah - it's a lot easier to reduce scope when you're building a tool for people to do work with. You ask "can they do the job with this tool" and cut anything superfluous for the first release. What is necessary in a game is much less clear cut. I feel like the trend towards minimalism in game design is a little misguided. When you're building a world for people to be immersed in little "unnecessary" features, or roadblocks, or redundancies in both setting and gameplay can make that world feel more real and engaging.
    - grp000 5y ago
      Where does StarCitizen fit in there? It feels like such a good example I have to ask the question.
      - celdon25 5y ago
        I'd assume it has a lot to do with decisions made at the top (see track record): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Roberts_(video_game_developer)#Career https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Roberts_(video_game_deve... (Disclaimer: I don't know the guy's management techniques or specifics, it's just a guess) Crowdfunding is great when no VC will fund your track record. But it leads to even less incentive to produce a ROI. You can see evidence of this same pattern in the crypto ICO wave of 2017, where the business endgame was usually the raise, not the exit.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
justinlloyd 5y ago
Oh I was on a project once where we decided to reduce scope. Dozens of distinct levels. The art team was well ahead of schedule, the software team way behind. So the Producer cut the scope by removing any levels that had unique art features. That really helped us. I could write a book on game development project management anti-patterns. Unfortunately, there's too many warm bodies willing to sacrifice for there ever to be effective change. You can proselytize solutions to the problem all day long, but the truth of the matter is, the power structure doesn't want to change because the power structure believes it doesn't need to change. There's also a large number of anti-patterns missing from the paper: Lack of training (possibly falling under lack of knowledge) Not invented here syndrome Lack of adoption of new technology Rushing to adopt immature technology Early optimization Over engineering Under engineering Lack of architecture (could fall under planning, but this is more fundamental) Assumptions about how things will work Lack of experienced team members, across all disciplines (lack of knowledge?) Rework "Good enough" or as I hear it "It compiles and runs doesn't it?" Aiming for perfection Lack of repeatability in all aspects of the process (inadequate tools?)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- loup-vaillant 5y ago
  Most of what you describe sounds like production problems, which were explicitly ignored by the paper (they focused on feature management and people management).
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  > Not invented here syndrome I feel like this is a big one that affects a lot of customers. There's so many games - from indies to AAA titles - where they show hubris by building their own engines; this has led to a lot of titles that just look dated and janky (top of my head it's games like Final Fantasy XV, Skyrim and Cyberpunk); these would all have turned out better if they picked an off-the-shelf engine instead of try and build and maintain their own. I mean I'm sure they're competent developers all, but they can't compete with e.g. Unreal or ID Tech. > "Good enough" or as I hear it "It compiles and runs doesn't it?" Is not actually the worst I think; it's not acceptable in AAA games (see Cyberpunk again, a case of over-reaching / feature creep / hubris), but for plenty of indie games, good enough IS good enough. I mean you mention aiming for perfection right afterward, and over-engineering before, and the main paper mentions feature creep; it's better to ship than end up in development hell, especially if performance is forgiving (e.g. 2d indie games on modern hardware).
firedev 5y ago
How to read it?
- red_trumpet 5y ago
  Click the "PDF" link on the right, under "Download". Or use this: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2202.06183 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2202.06183
not1ofU 5y ago
Watched this documenatry [0] about the re-development (reboot) of "Killer Instinct": Description from the link below: "Killer Instinct is a fighting game seiries treasured by many and with its unique combat mechanics and cast of characters, it easily set itself apart from its contemporaries. And while Killer Instinct made a triumphant return in 2013, the road there was anything but easy," [0] -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks4eZoG94Vs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks4eZoG94Vs
pol4ko 5y ago
Hi guys. Author here (one of them). I'm so happy that the paper got here on HN without us doing anything. This is a big thing for researchers. Normally our papers end up in a dark corner of internet. This paper is a pre-print. We submit it to a workshop (GAS2022) and it is still in process of peer-review. So it will have many more changes until get accepted. Including some suggestions from here :D
- danbolt 5y ago
  Super cool to see the paper! Given that some of the authors are in Montreal (a large video game development hub), do you think you'd ever continue this path with primary research?
  - pol4ko 5y ago
    Yes absolutely. Some of the authors are in the field since mid 2000s. As for me, I'm about to finish my PhD and try my luck researching game development. The dream is to build a video game research lab. But that might take some time.

96 points by Hard_Space 5y ago

afpx 5y ago

Underestimated Tasks Feature Creep Death March Feature Cuts Understaffed Team Underbudgeted Project Neglected [...] Design Working on Multiple Projects Yep, pretty much sums up my career, so far.

kqr 5y ago
Wait both adding and removing features are anti-patterns? Is waterfall the solution, then? Where finally we know exactly which features work well together before we write the first line of code?
- justinlloyd 5y ago
  Adding features means unplanned work whilst in development, and usually quite late in to development. Removing features means wasted effort, hopefully at the design stage, but usually much later, after art has been created and code written.
  - kqr 5y ago
    On the other hand, not adding important features you failed to plan for means leaving puddles of customer value on the floor. Similarly, not removing unnecessary features means pouring even more wasted effort into something worth nothing.
    - justinlloyd 5y ago
      Oh, I'm not saying these aspects don't have value, merely pointing out to the GP what they mean, and are not mutually exclusive on the same project.
- Jensson 5y ago
  Those are just items to blame when the game fails. Scenario: One team in the project is under delivering. Cut scope and the game fails due to missing vital features, "the game failed since we cut the scope!". Don't cut scope and the game fails due to bugs or delays "the game failed since we didn't cut scope!". Both of those are the wrong answer, its just that people don't want to admit the real answer here.
Nemrod67 5y ago
I'm on my third attempt to get (kinda) the same game out in 10 years, I actually have a shot now (better design, reduced scope, better effects, loving companion). But sometimes I wonder if Jeff Vogel might be right when he says "please do something else with your life if you're not crazy about games" XD
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  It's too easy to fall into the trap of polishing to perfection, or going back to the drawing board. I found working with Pico-8 pretty liberating, in that you're really limited in your options and toolkit. I'd get stuck in analysis paralysis if I were to build a game, I think.

chii 5y ago

Interesting paper. However, the "solutions" to some of the problems aren't really useful - e.g., the problem of excess scope has the solution of "reduce scope"; and the problem of under-estimated tasks has the solution of "estimate better". i guess it's useful to know the failure modes of projects, but would really like a real study on how projects that succeed navigate away from failure modes. use google viewer if you don't want to download the pdf directly: https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=arxiv.org/pdf/2202.06183.pdf https://docs.google.com/viewerng/viewer?url=arxiv.org/pdf/22...

reitzensteinm 5y ago
Especially as reduced scope might torpedo the entire reason for the game to exist. A buggy game with a large scope may be orders of magnitude more successful than a well made small game.
- p1necone 5y ago
  Yeah - it's a lot easier to reduce scope when you're building a tool for people to do work with. You ask "can they do the job with this tool" and cut anything superfluous for the first release. What is necessary in a game is much less clear cut. I feel like the trend towards minimalism in game design is a little misguided. When you're building a world for people to be immersed in little "unnecessary" features, or roadblocks, or redundancies in both setting and gameplay can make that world feel more real and engaging.
  - grp000 5y ago
    Where does StarCitizen fit in there? It feels like such a good example I have to ask the question.
    - celdon25 5y ago
      I'd assume it has a lot to do with decisions made at the top (see track record): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Roberts_(video_game_developer)#Career https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Roberts_(video_game_deve... (Disclaimer: I don't know the guy's management techniques or specifics, it's just a guess) Crowdfunding is great when no VC will fund your track record. But it leads to even less incentive to produce a ROI. You can see evidence of this same pattern in the crypto ICO wave of 2017, where the business endgame was usually the raise, not the exit.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

justinlloyd 5y ago

Oh I was on a project once where we decided to reduce scope. Dozens of distinct levels. The art team was well ahead of schedule, the software team way behind. So the Producer cut the scope by removing any levels that had unique art features. That really helped us. I could write a book on game development project management anti-patterns. Unfortunately, there's too many warm bodies willing to sacrifice for there ever to be effective change. You can proselytize solutions to the problem all day long, but the truth of the matter is, the power structure doesn't want to change because the power structure believes it doesn't need to change. There's also a large number of anti-patterns missing from the paper: Lack of training (possibly falling under lack of knowledge) Not invented here syndrome Lack of adoption of new technology Rushing to adopt immature technology Early optimization Over engineering Under engineering Lack of architecture (could fall under planning, but this is more fundamental) Assumptions about how things will work Lack of experienced team members, across all disciplines (lack of knowledge?) Rework "Good enough" or as I hear it "It compiles and runs doesn't it?" Aiming for perfection Lack of repeatability in all aspects of the process (inadequate tools?)

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
loup-vaillant 5y ago
Most of what you describe sounds like production problems, which were explicitly ignored by the paper (they focused on feature management and people management).
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
> Not invented here syndrome I feel like this is a big one that affects a lot of customers. There's so many games - from indies to AAA titles - where they show hubris by building their own engines; this has led to a lot of titles that just look dated and janky (top of my head it's games like Final Fantasy XV, Skyrim and Cyberpunk); these would all have turned out better if they picked an off-the-shelf engine instead of try and build and maintain their own. I mean I'm sure they're competent developers all, but they can't compete with e.g. Unreal or ID Tech. > "Good enough" or as I hear it "It compiles and runs doesn't it?" Is not actually the worst I think; it's not acceptable in AAA games (see Cyberpunk again, a case of over-reaching / feature creep / hubris), but for plenty of indie games, good enough IS good enough. I mean you mention aiming for perfection right afterward, and over-engineering before, and the main paper mentions feature creep; it's better to ship than end up in development hell, especially if performance is forgiving (e.g. 2d indie games on modern hardware).

firedev 5y ago

How to read it?

red_trumpet 5y ago
Click the "PDF" link on the right, under "Download". Or use this: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2202.06183 https://arxiv.org/pdf/2202.06183

not1ofU 5y ago

Watched this documenatry [0] about the re-development (reboot) of "Killer Instinct": Description from the link below: "Killer Instinct is a fighting game seiries treasured by many and with its unique combat mechanics and cast of characters, it easily set itself apart from its contemporaries. And while Killer Instinct made a triumphant return in 2013, the road there was anything but easy," [0] -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks4eZoG94Vs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks4eZoG94Vs

pol4ko 5y ago

Hi guys. Author here (one of them). I'm so happy that the paper got here on HN without us doing anything. This is a big thing for researchers. Normally our papers end up in a dark corner of internet. This paper is a pre-print. We submit it to a workshop (GAS2022) and it is still in process of peer-review. So it will have many more changes until get accepted. Including some suggestions from here :D

danbolt 5y ago
Super cool to see the paper! Given that some of the authors are in Montreal (a large video game development hub), do you think you'd ever continue this path with primary research?
- pol4ko 5y ago
  Yes absolutely. Some of the authors are in the field since mid 2000s. As for me, I'm about to finish my PhD and try my luck researching game development. The dream is to build a video game research lab. But that might take some time.