7 ms·

It seems like these protests ought to be solvable by the police, using normal police powers, without resorting to emergency measures or doing things like freezi

by _skel 5y ago

It seems like these protests ought to be solvable by the police, using normal police powers, without resorting to emergency measures or doing things like freezing accounts and suspending truckers' licenses. Why not do the obvious thing: send the police in to arrest people who won't leave. Tow their trucks. That worked at the border the other day -- why wouldn't it work in Ottawa too? It's not like the Canadian police haven't dealt with large protests in the capital before. If that approach doesn't work, then it might make sense use emergency powers. But why go straight to emergency powers without trying to clear people out the normal way? For me the main takeaway from the protests so far is that the Canadian police are either afraid to, or unwilling to, enforce the law, and the government at all levels is afraid to make the police do their jobs.

csense 5y ago
dade_ 5y ago
Watch the Toronto Police Service handle the trucker convoy/protests. No emergency powers needed. Police in Canada are generally well trained so I am baffled by what is going on in Ottawa only a few hours drive away. https://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=2376560 https://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=2376560
rpeden 5y ago
The Ottawa police refused to do any enforcement. They claimed they didn't have enough manpower and needed help from the provincial and federal governments. Why they were so poorly prepared when the convoy was broadcasting its intentions in advance is a great question, but it also doesn't help now. The Ottawa Police Service abandoned the people of the city for weeks and now can't resolve the problem on its own. So I guess the answer to "why go straight to emergency powers without trying to clear people out the normal way?" is because the people whose job it was to handle this the normal way raised the white flag about 24 hours in and haven't done much about it since.
- 6nf 5y ago
  >The Ottawa police refused to do any enforcement. This is not correct. The Ottawa police have repeatedly said that they're ready to arrest anyone breaking the law but currently it is not illegal to park in public roads with trucks and the truck drivers are mostly abiding by all laws. Less than half a dozen people have been arrested because there's no laws being broken. The reason they are not doing any enforcement is because they have no legal authority to kick out the bulk of the protestors.
  - rescripting 5y ago
    Ottawa resident here, this is so far off base I’d call it propaganda. Fireworks in the downtown core nightly. Air horns for days on end. Harassment, assaults and intimidation targeted towards minorities or those wearing a mask. Public urination, defication. Even “it’s not illegal to park on public roads” is false because they’re parked across all lanes, blocking north/south access to several blocks.
    - 6nf 5y ago
      How many people have been arrested for breaking laws? Last I checked it was 4.
      - mmastrac 5y ago
        This is no proof that laws are not being broken.
        6nf 5y ago
        What if I gave you a video of the Ottawa police chief begging for people to report more crimes because they are unable to find more people to arrest?
        rescripting 5y ago
        He said they cannot respond to incidents reported on social media, so please call them in. This was in response to a question from a reporter about an incident they saw on social media. Enforcement is non existent. The police are so afraid of escalating what are clearly a volatile group that they’ve opted to arrest only when it’s unavoidable. Whether or not that I keeping a lid on the situation is up for debate, but what isn’t up for debate is that laws are being broken and it’s making life hell for residents. Oh, also, three days ago protestors jammed the emergency lines with phony calls. It would ring until the line disconnected. It’s a miracle no deaths were directly attributed to this.
na85 5y ago
coding123 5y ago
At the end of the day, at some point the police are not going to do things they don't agree with.
- twblalock 5y ago
  What makes you think the Ottawa police agree with the protesters?
  - Breza 5y ago
    I don't even think the officers' politics matters all that much. The primary motivation of my cop friends is to get home safe at the end of the day. Gigantic disruptions that have the potential to turn violent are a bad thing.
rfrey 5y ago
Tow truck companies at a blocked Alberta border crossing were reporting death threats from American extremists when their companies appeared on video recordings of the blockade. The RCMP reported they were unable to contract towing companies, apparently out of fear of retribution from 20 miles south.
canucker2016 5y ago
The Ottawa police haven't been able to get any towing companies to come in and tow away any of the heavy trucks. From the articles I've read, the trucks at the border crossing were lighter pickup trucks, which can be towed away with regular tow trucks. Some of the reasons listed as to the reluctance of towing companies to participate: - the heavy truck towing companies get much of their business from the truck industry. If these towing companies were to tow away these heavy trucks, they may lose much of that business. - many of the towing companies support the freedom convoy and their participants - fear of violence against tow truck operators if they try to tow away these trucks see https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-protest-truck-tow-remove-1.6339652 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-protest-truck-t... the police and government had ample time to prepare for the protest. They should have restricted vehicle access near Parliament Hill once they heard the protesters were heading to Ottawa.
- ckdarby 5y ago
  In this case wouldn't it be fairly straightforward to just have the city buy a tow truck, paint without branding and have a worker of the city just tow? I mean I'd suggest having any department do this. There must be day to day things disrupted enough that someone's job has been disrupted with this all going on that can be reallocated to this.
  - canucker2016 5y ago
    from the above CBC article, there are 500 (down to 360 as of today, Feb 15) heavy trucks in the "red zone" - one or even a handful of heavy truck towers is not enough. also from the CBC article, excerpts: ==== While the city likely has some vehicles with heavy-duty towing capacity for large OC Transpo vehicles, they also did not provide a response when asked how many they had. Hooking up a commercial truck to a heavy-duty tower — sometimes called a "wrecker" — takes at least 30 minutes, Whan said. It also takes time to tow the trucks to wherever they're being relocated to, and if the City of Ottawa did attempt it, they'd need to find a sizable space to put them. Police don't think towing the trucks is an effective solution, said Matt Skof, president of the Ottawa Police Association. "You can tow all you want — they're just going to return to the location, so it hasn't resolved the issue," Skof said. "And where are you putting all these vehicles?" ====

by _skel 5y ago

csense 5y ago

dade_ 5y ago

Watch the Toronto Police Service handle the trucker convoy/protests. No emergency powers needed. Police in Canada are generally well trained so I am baffled by what is going on in Ottawa only a few hours drive away. https://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=2376560 https://www.cp24.com/video?clipId=2376560

rpeden 5y ago

The Ottawa police refused to do any enforcement. They claimed they didn't have enough manpower and needed help from the provincial and federal governments. Why they were so poorly prepared when the convoy was broadcasting its intentions in advance is a great question, but it also doesn't help now. The Ottawa Police Service abandoned the people of the city for weeks and now can't resolve the problem on its own. So I guess the answer to "why go straight to emergency powers without trying to clear people out the normal way?" is because the people whose job it was to handle this the normal way raised the white flag about 24 hours in and haven't done much about it since.

6nf 5y ago
>The Ottawa police refused to do any enforcement. This is not correct. The Ottawa police have repeatedly said that they're ready to arrest anyone breaking the law but currently it is not illegal to park in public roads with trucks and the truck drivers are mostly abiding by all laws. Less than half a dozen people have been arrested because there's no laws being broken. The reason they are not doing any enforcement is because they have no legal authority to kick out the bulk of the protestors.
- rescripting 5y ago
  Ottawa resident here, this is so far off base I’d call it propaganda. Fireworks in the downtown core nightly. Air horns for days on end. Harassment, assaults and intimidation targeted towards minorities or those wearing a mask. Public urination, defication. Even “it’s not illegal to park on public roads” is false because they’re parked across all lanes, blocking north/south access to several blocks.
  - 6nf 5y ago
    How many people have been arrested for breaking laws? Last I checked it was 4.
    - mmastrac 5y ago
      This is no proof that laws are not being broken.
      - 6nf 5y ago
        What if I gave you a video of the Ottawa police chief begging for people to report more crimes because they are unable to find more people to arrest?
        rescripting 5y ago
        He said they cannot respond to incidents reported on social media, so please call them in. This was in response to a question from a reporter about an incident they saw on social media. Enforcement is non existent. The police are so afraid of escalating what are clearly a volatile group that they’ve opted to arrest only when it’s unavoidable. Whether or not that I keeping a lid on the situation is up for debate, but what isn’t up for debate is that laws are being broken and it’s making life hell for residents. Oh, also, three days ago protestors jammed the emergency lines with phony calls. It would ring until the line disconnected. It’s a miracle no deaths were directly attributed to this.

na85 5y ago

coding123 5y ago

At the end of the day, at some point the police are not going to do things they don't agree with.

twblalock 5y ago
What makes you think the Ottawa police agree with the protesters?
- Breza 5y ago
  I don't even think the officers' politics matters all that much. The primary motivation of my cop friends is to get home safe at the end of the day. Gigantic disruptions that have the potential to turn violent are a bad thing.

rfrey 5y ago

Tow truck companies at a blocked Alberta border crossing were reporting death threats from American extremists when their companies appeared on video recordings of the blockade. The RCMP reported they were unable to contract towing companies, apparently out of fear of retribution from 20 miles south.

canucker2016 5y ago

The Ottawa police haven't been able to get any towing companies to come in and tow away any of the heavy trucks. From the articles I've read, the trucks at the border crossing were lighter pickup trucks, which can be towed away with regular tow trucks. Some of the reasons listed as to the reluctance of towing companies to participate: - the heavy truck towing companies get much of their business from the truck industry. If these towing companies were to tow away these heavy trucks, they may lose much of that business. - many of the towing companies support the freedom convoy and their participants - fear of violence against tow truck operators if they try to tow away these trucks see https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-protest-truck-tow-remove-1.6339652 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ottawa-protest-truck-t... the police and government had ample time to prepare for the protest. They should have restricted vehicle access near Parliament Hill once they heard the protesters were heading to Ottawa.

ckdarby 5y ago
In this case wouldn't it be fairly straightforward to just have the city buy a tow truck, paint without branding and have a worker of the city just tow? I mean I'd suggest having any department do this. There must be day to day things disrupted enough that someone's job has been disrupted with this all going on that can be reallocated to this.
- canucker2016 5y ago
  from the above CBC article, there are 500 (down to 360 as of today, Feb 15) heavy trucks in the "red zone" - one or even a handful of heavy truck towers is not enough. also from the CBC article, excerpts: ==== While the city likely has some vehicles with heavy-duty towing capacity for large OC Transpo vehicles, they also did not provide a response when asked how many they had. Hooking up a commercial truck to a heavy-duty tower — sometimes called a "wrecker" — takes at least 30 minutes, Whan said. It also takes time to tow the trucks to wherever they're being relocated to, and if the City of Ottawa did attempt it, they'd need to find a sizable space to put them. Police don't think towing the trucks is an effective solution, said Matt Skof, president of the Ottawa Police Association. "You can tow all you want — they're just going to return to the location, so it hasn't resolved the issue," Skof said. "And where are you putting all these vehicles?" ====