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Boy are we going to look stupid when a non-scam crypto use comes out! Total egg on our collective faces! One of these days! I mean obviously not today, but soon

by almost 5y ago

Boy are we going to look stupid when a non-scam crypto use comes out! Total egg on our collective faces! One of these days! I mean obviously not today, but soon, right?

ryanSrich 5y ago
How is me taking some bitcoin and purchasing something online instantly with near zero fees a scam? Please explain with precise language how that is a scam. That's a use case. Now tell me how it's a scam.
- bluecalm 5y ago
  Even the most blatant scams, literal pyramids called MLMs often have some useful product to muddy the waters. I mean you can after all but that toothpaste and shampoo from Amway and use it!
  - ryanSrich 5y ago
    Yes. The PC parts on bought on Newegg.com with Bitcoin sure are contributing to a crypto scam. How could I have not seen this?
    - bluecalm 5y ago
      They do because you give legitimacy to the scheme most people will lose money in once it collapses.
- xmonkee 5y ago
  Tell me what you're buying.
  - ryanSrich 5y ago
    My most recent PC build was created entirely from parts bought on Newegg.com. Newegg accepts bitcoin as payment. We're not in 2009 anymore where people only buy drugs with Bitcoin.
    - danbruc 5y ago
      Does Newegg do anything with the Bitcoins or are they immediately converting them into Dollars?
      - bduerst 5y ago
        IIRC Newegg is using Bitpay, which costs ~1% and settles to USD daily. It also means no refunds allowed (even in USD) to the customer using it, only store credit.
        mbesto 5y ago
        Which is an entirely pointless way to transact commerce for 99% of the population. I get my paycheck in USD and then buy goods and services with it. If it converts to BTC and then BTC back to USD then whats the point? It's just paying with a credit card with extra steps. What's the use case here?
        bduerst 5y ago
        Oh I'm not defending it. It's a garbage way to pay considering the competitive alternatives they allow. It's marketing to a specific niche of tech bro, which is probably a large enough segment of Newegg's customers to justify it.
    - sumeno 5y ago
      I love having to file taxes documents for every transaction I make. Great currency
- sumeno 5y ago
  If you’re using bitcoin you aren’t purchasing anything instantly. Transaction confirmation is currently taking ~7 minutes.
  - bduerst 5y ago
    Rule of thumb is you have to wait ~20 minutes (two blocks) for the verification. That's a long time to hold up the line at the grocery check out.
- sireat 5y ago
  Not much of a use case unless you want to move large amounts. https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_fee https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_f... - and current $1.76 is considered low compared to $50 per transaction craziness. So you have to go offchain Again, I paid BTC for a laptop 9 years ago and it made sense for me then since it was mined BTC from 11 years ago. In order to use BTC you need to obtain BTC and transaction fees kill any normal day to day use case. This leaves BTC for less than legal uses where you do not care about fees. So BTC itself might not qualify as a scam but as a mega enabler of scams and illegal activity. EDIT: that $1.76 is just a on-chain fee for the network, most stores will charge you extra to use BTC since they do not care about BTC they want to cash out immediately so they use a 3rd party. So unless you get paid in BTC you have very little reason to use BTC for payments.
babyshake 5y ago
Setting aside other ways crypto can and is being used, the most interesting thing about DeFi IMO is its compositional (and decompositional) nature. This mostly results in reinventing things that already existed in Wall St and other areas of the finance world, but are now available for anyone to use.
- bduerst 5y ago
  Can you give specific examples of these 'things' though?
  - shemnon42 5y ago
    Becoming a market maker, liquidity pools, yield farming, flash loans (short term borrowing of lots of money)
  - sailfast 5y ago
    Becoming "your own" domain registrar without having to deal with ICANN was another interesting one to me (after checking into how all those .eth domains popped up). It was exciting when I first looked at it and then I realized that this was actually not "democratizing" anything so much as ensuring a new class of folks would be able to create new centralized "everythings" in a new environment outside of the current system - without the benefit of the years of testing, regulation, and (sure) cruft that our current systems have because they're subject to political forces (which is actually a feature). Maybe starting the wild west over again is a good thing? My money's on "not really" at the moment.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]

by almost 5y ago

Boy are we going to look stupid when a non-scam crypto use comes out! Total egg on our collective faces! One of these days! I mean obviously not today, but soon, right?

ryanSrich 5y ago

How is me taking some bitcoin and purchasing something online instantly with near zero fees a scam? Please explain with precise language how that is a scam. That's a use case. Now tell me how it's a scam.

bluecalm 5y ago
Even the most blatant scams, literal pyramids called MLMs often have some useful product to muddy the waters. I mean you can after all but that toothpaste and shampoo from Amway and use it!
- ryanSrich 5y ago
  Yes. The PC parts on bought on Newegg.com with Bitcoin sure are contributing to a crypto scam. How could I have not seen this?
  - bluecalm 5y ago
    They do because you give legitimacy to the scheme most people will lose money in once it collapses.
xmonkee 5y ago
Tell me what you're buying.
- ryanSrich 5y ago
  My most recent PC build was created entirely from parts bought on Newegg.com. Newegg accepts bitcoin as payment. We're not in 2009 anymore where people only buy drugs with Bitcoin.
  - danbruc 5y ago
    Does Newegg do anything with the Bitcoins or are they immediately converting them into Dollars?
    - bduerst 5y ago
      IIRC Newegg is using Bitpay, which costs ~1% and settles to USD daily. It also means no refunds allowed (even in USD) to the customer using it, only store credit.
      - mbesto 5y ago
        Which is an entirely pointless way to transact commerce for 99% of the population. I get my paycheck in USD and then buy goods and services with it. If it converts to BTC and then BTC back to USD then whats the point? It's just paying with a credit card with extra steps. What's the use case here?
        bduerst 5y ago
        Oh I'm not defending it. It's a garbage way to pay considering the competitive alternatives they allow. It's marketing to a specific niche of tech bro, which is probably a large enough segment of Newegg's customers to justify it.
  - sumeno 5y ago
    I love having to file taxes documents for every transaction I make. Great currency
sumeno 5y ago
If you’re using bitcoin you aren’t purchasing anything instantly. Transaction confirmation is currently taking ~7 minutes.
- bduerst 5y ago
  Rule of thumb is you have to wait ~20 minutes (two blocks) for the verification. That's a long time to hold up the line at the grocery check out.
sireat 5y ago
Not much of a use case unless you want to move large amounts. https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_fee https://ycharts.com/indicators/bitcoin_average_transaction_f... - and current $1.76 is considered low compared to $50 per transaction craziness. So you have to go offchain Again, I paid BTC for a laptop 9 years ago and it made sense for me then since it was mined BTC from 11 years ago. In order to use BTC you need to obtain BTC and transaction fees kill any normal day to day use case. This leaves BTC for less than legal uses where you do not care about fees. So BTC itself might not qualify as a scam but as a mega enabler of scams and illegal activity. EDIT: that $1.76 is just a on-chain fee for the network, most stores will charge you extra to use BTC since they do not care about BTC they want to cash out immediately so they use a 3rd party. So unless you get paid in BTC you have very little reason to use BTC for payments.

babyshake 5y ago

Setting aside other ways crypto can and is being used, the most interesting thing about DeFi IMO is its compositional (and decompositional) nature. This mostly results in reinventing things that already existed in Wall St and other areas of the finance world, but are now available for anyone to use.

bduerst 5y ago
Can you give specific examples of these 'things' though?
- shemnon42 5y ago
  Becoming a market maker, liquidity pools, yield farming, flash loans (short term borrowing of lots of money)
- sailfast 5y ago
  Becoming "your own" domain registrar without having to deal with ICANN was another interesting one to me (after checking into how all those .eth domains popped up). It was exciting when I first looked at it and then I realized that this was actually not "democratizing" anything so much as ensuring a new class of folks would be able to create new centralized "everythings" in a new environment outside of the current system - without the benefit of the years of testing, regulation, and (sure) cruft that our current systems have because they're subject to political forces (which is actually a feature). Maybe starting the wild west over again is a good thing? My money's on "not really" at the moment.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]