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It's also conceivable (theoretically) to just decouple teaching from examination. Anyone may participate in any class (no entry requirements), but there's a cer

It's also conceivable (theoretically) to just decouple teaching from examination. Anyone may participate in any class (no entry requirements), but there's a certain bar for passing exams and getting a degree. To a certain extent, this possibility already exists with textbooks, openly accessible video lectures, etc., but there's also a lot of people who would still benefit from in-person teaching even if they'd never get to the same level of understanding as people who are going to earn a degree.

civilized 5y ago
That's actually a very interesting idea. What if it changed the game so that instead of exams causing stress and discouraging learning, people were incentivized to learn at their own pace and eventually pass the exam? This situation already exists with many professional credentials, such as CPA, CFA, FSA, etc. They tell you what will be on the exam, provide practice problems, lots of study materials are available from different sources, and you take it when you're ready. There's also college exams that have a similar function (CLEP is the acronym I think?) but they're not really highlighted as a preferred path to students.
- professoretc 5y ago
  > There's also college exams that have a similar function (CLEP is the acronym I think?) but they're not really highlighted as a preferred path to students. That's correct. But not all schools accept it, and if a school accepts it they may not accept all the different exams. (CLEP exams mostly cover general-ed subjects.) Most schools also have an in-house option to test-out of classes, but it may be up to the individual departments to determine whether they want to allow that. Schools may also disincentivise testing-out in other ways... When I wanted to test out of the intro-to-computers course which was, at the same, required of all students, I had to pay the normal per-unit fee (as if I had taken the course normally) plus a special "challenge fee".
quacked 5y ago
I wish this was how college worked; everything is free, except to sit for an exam and then to obtain the degree itself. Colleges could structure degrees and majors by examination and interview, rather than by "credit hour", which itself is a meaningless assessment of comprehension. As an example: "The University of College offers a Degree in Electrical Engineering, offered at the following levels: - Associate (At least a 60% in the following examinations: Classical Electricity, Circuit Design, ...) - Bachelor (Meets Associate requirements plus at least an 80% in the folowing examinations: Signal Analysis...) - Master (Meets Bachelor requirements plus at least a 90%...) - Doctor (Meets Master requirements plus three original research publications...) " HOWEVER--this would require the total dismantling and reform of the student loan industry, academia itself, and the secondary market that's sprung up around college being a "part of life" for young adults. "College" is a many-billion dollar industry and very few peoiple want it disrupted to the degree that it would require to move to an examination-based format, with the exception of builders and technicians (engineers, etc.) who are actually trying to filter on skill when they hire.
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  The German system goes with a different take: it is almost free because much of the burden is placed on the student, no TAs to grade homework that isn’t graded anyways, just one final exam to determine your grade for the course. No fancy sport centers or dorms or other facilities that Americans find mandatory but don’t really matter that much.
  - quacked 5y ago
    I know a few Germans--the only issue I have with that system is that they're required to take the class before sitting for the examination. This has two effects; one, it makes a degree vanishingly difficult for anyone that doesn't have a lot of time, and two, it makes it impossible to use your degree to accurately reflect your skill level once you're out of college. I think it ought to be appropriate for a degree to take decades, with examinations taken and passed at leisure. Most entry-level jobs that require degrees are far easier than college degrees, anyway.

civilized 5y ago

That's actually a very interesting idea. What if it changed the game so that instead of exams causing stress and discouraging learning, people were incentivized to learn at their own pace and eventually pass the exam? This situation already exists with many professional credentials, such as CPA, CFA, FSA, etc. They tell you what will be on the exam, provide practice problems, lots of study materials are available from different sources, and you take it when you're ready. There's also college exams that have a similar function (CLEP is the acronym I think?) but they're not really highlighted as a preferred path to students.

professoretc 5y ago
> There's also college exams that have a similar function (CLEP is the acronym I think?) but they're not really highlighted as a preferred path to students. That's correct. But not all schools accept it, and if a school accepts it they may not accept all the different exams. (CLEP exams mostly cover general-ed subjects.) Most schools also have an in-house option to test-out of classes, but it may be up to the individual departments to determine whether they want to allow that. Schools may also disincentivise testing-out in other ways... When I wanted to test out of the intro-to-computers course which was, at the same, required of all students, I had to pay the normal per-unit fee (as if I had taken the course normally) plus a special "challenge fee".

quacked 5y ago

I wish this was how college worked; everything is free, except to sit for an exam and then to obtain the degree itself. Colleges could structure degrees and majors by examination and interview, rather than by "credit hour", which itself is a meaningless assessment of comprehension. As an example: "The University of College offers a Degree in Electrical Engineering, offered at the following levels: - Associate (At least a 60% in the following examinations: Classical Electricity, Circuit Design, ...) - Bachelor (Meets Associate requirements plus at least an 80% in the folowing examinations: Signal Analysis...) - Master (Meets Bachelor requirements plus at least a 90%...) - Doctor (Meets Master requirements plus three original research publications...) " HOWEVER--this would require the total dismantling and reform of the student loan industry, academia itself, and the secondary market that's sprung up around college being a "part of life" for young adults. "College" is a many-billion dollar industry and very few peoiple want it disrupted to the degree that it would require to move to an examination-based format, with the exception of builders and technicians (engineers, etc.) who are actually trying to filter on skill when they hire.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago
The German system goes with a different take: it is almost free because much of the burden is placed on the student, no TAs to grade homework that isn’t graded anyways, just one final exam to determine your grade for the course. No fancy sport centers or dorms or other facilities that Americans find mandatory but don’t really matter that much.
- quacked 5y ago
  I know a few Germans--the only issue I have with that system is that they're required to take the class before sitting for the examination. This has two effects; one, it makes a degree vanishingly difficult for anyone that doesn't have a lot of time, and two, it makes it impossible to use your degree to accurately reflect your skill level once you're out of college. I think it ought to be appropriate for a degree to take decades, with examinations taken and passed at leisure. Most entry-level jobs that require degrees are far easier than college degrees, anyway.