5 ms·

>I would like to see a lot more of this. The problem is, it doesn't scale, especially in a city as big and violent as Chicago. It only works so long as police

by _dain_ 5y ago

>I would like to see a lot more of this. The problem is, it doesn't scale, especially in a city as big and violent as Chicago. It only works so long as police keep their foot on the gas (so to speak); they minute they let up on traffic enforcement (because of competing priorities) things will get worse again. If one person speeds, that person is an idiot. But if everyone speeds, the road engineer is an idiot. A systemic problem like this is a result of poor road design, not individual deviant drivers. Police should not be burdened with the responsibility of ensuring safety in a system that is unsafe by design. The roads need to be redesigned so that drivers naturally feel unsafe at high speed.

lotsofpulp 5y ago
Traffic circles / roundabouts would go a long way.
- dboreham 5y ago
  Plenty of roundabouts here in Montana.
throwaway894345 5y ago
As it stands, Chicago has police cars all over the place (in every neighborhood I’ve lived in anyway) often just sitting there parked and by my estimation there’s close to zero traffic enforcement, so we certainly seem to have a lot of capacity for maintaining this sort of enforcement and I suspect it would be like introducing a few wolves into a national park—it doesn’t take much enforcement to drive significant, broad changes. > A systemic problem like this is a result of poor road design, not individual deviant drivers. In many cases, I agree that there is a systemic problem at play, but these cases tend to be highways (i.e., no pedestrians) and the issue is politicians setting speed limits which traffic engineers understand to be unsafely low for the road’s design (the safest speed being that which 85% of drivers would naturally drive if unencumbered). And it hardly matters how engineers design the road because politicians will always respond to a vocal minority who argue that the limits should be lower. However with respect to streets (i.e., places where pedestrians belong) rather than highways, the issue is only systemic with respect to enforcement—many other parts of the country (or even the same places with different enforcement) have similar streets but drivers are better behaved. Which isn’t to say that there isn’t room for improvement everywhere, but only that the issue isn’t “Chicago has stupid street engineers”.
zhdc1 5y ago
> The problem is, it doesn't scale, especially in a city as big and violent as Chicago. It only works so long as police keep their foot on the gas (so to speak); they minute they let up on traffic enforcement (because of competing priorities) things will get worse again. Why would you need active policing to enforce traffic lights and pedestrian crosswalks? I don't like them either, but traffic camera work.
Aeolun 5y ago
We have automated pictures/registration and ticketing for cars that blow past a red light or somewhere else a camera is installed, if you have enough of them nobody speeds anywhere (without punishment)

by _dain_ 5y ago

lotsofpulp 5y ago

Traffic circles / roundabouts would go a long way.

dboreham 5y ago
Plenty of roundabouts here in Montana.

throwaway894345 5y ago

As it stands, Chicago has police cars all over the place (in every neighborhood I’ve lived in anyway) often just sitting there parked and by my estimation there’s close to zero traffic enforcement, so we certainly seem to have a lot of capacity for maintaining this sort of enforcement and I suspect it would be like introducing a few wolves into a national park—it doesn’t take much enforcement to drive significant, broad changes. > A systemic problem like this is a result of poor road design, not individual deviant drivers. In many cases, I agree that there is a systemic problem at play, but these cases tend to be highways (i.e., no pedestrians) and the issue is politicians setting speed limits which traffic engineers understand to be unsafely low for the road’s design (the safest speed being that which 85% of drivers would naturally drive if unencumbered). And it hardly matters how engineers design the road because politicians will always respond to a vocal minority who argue that the limits should be lower. However with respect to streets (i.e., places where pedestrians belong) rather than highways, the issue is only systemic with respect to enforcement—many other parts of the country (or even the same places with different enforcement) have similar streets but drivers are better behaved. Which isn’t to say that there isn’t room for improvement everywhere, but only that the issue isn’t “Chicago has stupid street engineers”.

zhdc1 5y ago

> The problem is, it doesn't scale, especially in a city as big and violent as Chicago. It only works so long as police keep their foot on the gas (so to speak); they minute they let up on traffic enforcement (because of competing priorities) things will get worse again. Why would you need active policing to enforce traffic lights and pedestrian crosswalks? I don't like them either, but traffic camera work.

Aeolun 5y ago

We have automated pictures/registration and ticketing for cars that blow past a red light or somewhere else a camera is installed, if you have enough of them nobody speeds anywhere (without punishment)