4 ms·

Meta's threat to leave Europe hints at waning big tech influence

27 points by janedoegrrr 5y ago

m348e912 5y ago
It seems that Europes attitude is mostly "Don't let the door hit you on the way out". Good to see Europe sticking to privacy principles.
- ls15 5y ago
  As a European: I never had a Facebook account, yet they seem to have my data (ilegally). I can't find out without sending them more data. Why are these people still walking free?
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    If you as an individual made an app that collected all contact information from people who installed it, you'd be in jail by now. Facebook (and others) have done that for years and are walking free (and rich, at that!). This is the morals of the capitalist system: if you're already rich or powerful, you can do pretty much anything to the rest of us.
    - b-mmxx 5y ago
      “Anacharsis, accordingly, on learning what Solon was about, laughed at him for thinking that he could check the injustice and rapacity of the citizens by written laws, which were just like spiders' webs; they would hold the weak and delicate who might be caught in their meshes, but would be torn in pieces by the rich and powerful.” - Plutarch. Plutarch's Lives [0]. [0]: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:2008.01.0063:chapter=5 http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:20...
mlindner 5y ago
I wouldn't say it's "waning". This is more an over-estimation of their own self-importance by specifically Facebook. They're a net negative on society. If they left Europe I'm sure most European leaders would say "please do, and thank you". If for example Microsoft would have said the same thing the reaction would have been very different.
joelbondurant1 5y ago
barrenko 5y ago
It hints at Europe performing yet another economic suicide. No one wants to live in a museum.
- ranguna 5y ago
  Please elaborate.
- wmiel 5y ago
  If Facebook is supposed to be a pillar of modernity then call me an Amish.
- alpaca128 5y ago
  You seem to have a weird definition of suicide, considering the economy is still alive and well. Meanwhile there's no sign that any tech giant will ever be more than a short blip in our history. Not sure why we should sacrifice our privacy so a shameless parasite lives a few years longer.
- goodpoint 5y ago
  > It hints at Europe performing yet another economic suicide. Foreign companies are: 1) Taking away valuable citizens data 2) Taking away ad money 3) Not paying taxes If anything it's an economic suicide to support the status quo.
  - bluecalm 5y ago
    A lot of businesses rely on Facebook/Instagram for marketing, keeping in touch with customers etc. Those disappearing would kill them pretty quickly. Even if they start making their own self hosted websites no one will find them (and it will incur costs and it will be of shitty quality). Facebook leaving is a huge threat. I think you are underestimating how big a role it (or its other services) play in people's lives. If FB/Messanger/Instagram/Whatsapp disappear today in some European countries and the government's explanation was "we didn't manage to make an deal" I don't think that government would last for much longer.
    - 5y ago
drumhead 5y ago
It was farcical. The almost universal reaction seemed to have been "ok, bye".
xg15 5y ago
> The other alternative would be for Meta to change its business processes to comply with the relevant orders from the European Court and the General Data Protection Regulation of not sharing EU citizen data with a US entity. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't one reason this thing is such a headache that, right now, there is no way for US companies to do this? Because US companies are subject to the CLOUD act, they can be ordered to hand over user data to US agencies, whenever this data is under the company's control. It's irrelevant if the data center is located in Europe, the US or anywhere else, as long as the US company has control over it. If Facebook could solve this issue by simply doing their behaviour targeting inside EU datacenters, I doubt they would write this down even as a risk, let alone as strange veiled threats. That was just my understanding of the whole issue, which might be wrong though.
- olodus 5y ago
  Sorry I might not be understanding. Your suggestion seems more reasonable, but I don't understand how other large companies wouldn't be in the same situation as FB if this would be the case. Is FB just the first one to notice?
  - xg15 5y ago
    > I don't understand how other large companies wouldn't be in the same situation as FB if this would be the case. Good question. My understanding was that they are - hence the recent headlines about GA being illegal.
dresdenfire 5y ago
https://about.fb.com/news/2022/02/meta-is-absolutely-not-threatening-to-leave-europe/ https://about.fb.com/news/2022/02/meta-is-absolutely-not-thr... I don't understand why this misinformation is spreading so much. They have clearly stated that they are not leaving or threatening to leave. Don't buy into click bait articles.
puggsy 5y ago
"News site's constant negative of ad-competitor Facebook hints at waning news influence." Don't get me wrong, I don't care for FB's product, but the constant coverage is a bit pathetic. FB are required to disclose all sorts of low probability risks to investors.
- mattbrewsbytes 5y ago
  Well all mainstream media networks compete with FB for eyeballs so its natural for them to cover them negatively, its in their best interest to do so.

27 points by janedoegrrr 5y ago

It seems that Europes attitude is mostly "Don't let the door hit you on the way out". Good to see Europe sticking to privacy principles.

ls15 5y ago
As a European: I never had a Facebook account, yet they seem to have my data (ilegally). I can't find out without sending them more data. Why are these people still walking free?
- southerntofu 5y ago
  If you as an individual made an app that collected all contact information from people who installed it, you'd be in jail by now. Facebook (and others) have done that for years and are walking free (and rich, at that!). This is the morals of the capitalist system: if you're already rich or powerful, you can do pretty much anything to the rest of us.
  - b-mmxx 5y ago
    “Anacharsis, accordingly, on learning what Solon was about, laughed at him for thinking that he could check the injustice and rapacity of the citizens by written laws, which were just like spiders' webs; they would hold the weak and delicate who might be caught in their meshes, but would be torn in pieces by the rich and powerful.” - Plutarch. Plutarch's Lives [0]. [0]: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:2008.01.0063:chapter=5 http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:20...

mlindner 5y ago

I wouldn't say it's "waning". This is more an over-estimation of their own self-importance by specifically Facebook. They're a net negative on society. If they left Europe I'm sure most European leaders would say "please do, and thank you". If for example Microsoft would have said the same thing the reaction would have been very different.

joelbondurant1 5y ago

barrenko 5y ago

It hints at Europe performing yet another economic suicide. No one wants to live in a museum.

ranguna 5y ago
Please elaborate.
wmiel 5y ago
If Facebook is supposed to be a pillar of modernity then call me an Amish.
alpaca128 5y ago
You seem to have a weird definition of suicide, considering the economy is still alive and well. Meanwhile there's no sign that any tech giant will ever be more than a short blip in our history. Not sure why we should sacrifice our privacy so a shameless parasite lives a few years longer.
goodpoint 5y ago
> It hints at Europe performing yet another economic suicide. Foreign companies are: 1) Taking away valuable citizens data 2) Taking away ad money 3) Not paying taxes If anything it's an economic suicide to support the status quo.
- bluecalm 5y ago
  A lot of businesses rely on Facebook/Instagram for marketing, keeping in touch with customers etc. Those disappearing would kill them pretty quickly. Even if they start making their own self hosted websites no one will find them (and it will incur costs and it will be of shitty quality). Facebook leaving is a huge threat. I think you are underestimating how big a role it (or its other services) play in people's lives. If FB/Messanger/Instagram/Whatsapp disappear today in some European countries and the government's explanation was "we didn't manage to make an deal" I don't think that government would last for much longer.
  - 5y ago

drumhead 5y ago

It was farcical. The almost universal reaction seemed to have been "ok, bye".

xg15 5y ago

> The other alternative would be for Meta to change its business processes to comply with the relevant orders from the European Court and the General Data Protection Regulation of not sharing EU citizen data with a US entity. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't one reason this thing is such a headache that, right now, there is no way for US companies to do this? Because US companies are subject to the CLOUD act, they can be ordered to hand over user data to US agencies, whenever this data is under the company's control. It's irrelevant if the data center is located in Europe, the US or anywhere else, as long as the US company has control over it. If Facebook could solve this issue by simply doing their behaviour targeting inside EU datacenters, I doubt they would write this down even as a risk, let alone as strange veiled threats. That was just my understanding of the whole issue, which might be wrong though.

olodus 5y ago
Sorry I might not be understanding. Your suggestion seems more reasonable, but I don't understand how other large companies wouldn't be in the same situation as FB if this would be the case. Is FB just the first one to notice?
- xg15 5y ago
  > I don't understand how other large companies wouldn't be in the same situation as FB if this would be the case. Good question. My understanding was that they are - hence the recent headlines about GA being illegal.

dresdenfire 5y ago

https://about.fb.com/news/2022/02/meta-is-absolutely-not-threatening-to-leave-europe/ https://about.fb.com/news/2022/02/meta-is-absolutely-not-thr... I don't understand why this misinformation is spreading so much. They have clearly stated that they are not leaving or threatening to leave. Don't buy into click bait articles.

puggsy 5y ago

"News site's constant negative of ad-competitor Facebook hints at waning news influence." Don't get me wrong, I don't care for FB's product, but the constant coverage is a bit pathetic. FB are required to disclose all sorts of low probability risks to investors.

mattbrewsbytes 5y ago
Well all mainstream media networks compete with FB for eyeballs so its natural for them to cover them negatively, its in their best interest to do so.