8 ms·
On the Future of 12ft
- charcircuit 5y ago>Bandwidth costs are getting high. Have you considered using hosts that come with more free / unlimited bandwidth?
- waffle_maniac 5y agoIs there a reason this isn’t built into Brave? Lawsuits?
- tru3_power 5y agoI don’t get the architecture behind the site. Why do the request need to come from this service? How are the paywalls actually being bypassed? Edit: derp. Just read the now section. So if a copy of the cache is just being downloaded why couldn’t this type of thing all be done locally?
- gzer0 5y agoI replied this in another comment, but here is a look into an opensource version that you can compile. It will give you a good idea of how it works behind the scenes [1]. [1] https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome
- makeworld 5y agoAlso: https://gitlab.com/magnolia1234/bypass-paywalls-chrome-clean https://gitlab.com/magnolia1234/bypass-paywalls-chrome-clean
- throwingtt 5y agoMaybe pay the original paywall?
- whateveriforgot 5y ago12ft.io does a great job of bypassing paywalls, which is needed because people want to avoid paying for the content they want to see. What's more, 12ft is basically an open CGI proxy server. The chances that it will be used to death without any efficient way to monetize it seems high. FWIW I do think it's a great service and is very helpful when you only need to access one article from a site you'll never need/want a subscription for. But I can definitely see there being people taking advantage of it when they want to avoid subscribing to whatever service.
- waffle_maniac 5y agoIf it’s successful won’t publishers fight back like they did with outline.com?
- behringer 5y agoYou'd think they'd have to take it up with Google.
- poopsmithe 5y agoWell this is ironic. Well intentioned developer creates site to bypass paywalls. Site is a popular success, and begins to cost too much money for the developer to maintain. Developer comes up with a solution which is to introduce an optional paywall. I'm not just poking fun... I actually sympathize because I'm in a similar situation with one of my projects. I've had to reconsider being a 100% ideals-based person and actually set up methods for people to give me money. I've always appreciated sites offering free content, but now I'm in the unique situation where I'm the one publishing content. It takes a lot of time and energy to put together and my other sources of income can only cover the bills for so long. The harsh reality is that free services require money to operate.
- quickthrower2 5y agoYeah otherwise you could have an ad blocker blocker unblocker running ads.
- cplusplusfellow 5y agoI respect far more a site meant to bypass paywalls for shitnews that I probably will find laughable, but want to read.
- fastball 5y agoI made a website for piracy when I was a kid and did the exact same thing; was definitely ironic for people to pay for something to avoid paying. But I think it always has been and will continue to be more of a UX problem than a "wanting stuff for completely free" problem. Case in point, a couple hours ago I tried to stream the Super Bowl from the official NFL website, but failed multiple times to finish their checkout process (which was only $0.99, well below what I would've been willing to pay), so instead I... went elsewhere.
- Shank 5y agoThe problem I have with news sites is that in-general, news sites are extremely hard to cancel subscriptions to. Even piracy sites that offer "donation benefits" are usually non-recurring or easily-cancelled. Even though I can easily afford to pay for the New York Times or Wall Street Journal, in-practice, I refuse because I know that cancellation is going to be an extremely arduous activity that isn't going to be fun, if I don't like it. Heck, I've seen pirate or sketchy sites (e.g., private forums, book clubs, file hosts) in entirely different languages (e.g., Chinese) that are easier to cancel than old-world journalism. I've tried to support "traditional journalism gone digital" too! I paid for a subscription to Ars Technica once, but the website kept logging me out, so I needed an ad-blocker anyways. They also said they would send me a free WIRED subscription, but they sent me Sports Illustrated for a year. I tried to subscribe to The Atlantic, and after I paid, I learned I somehow signed up for a digital version that still included ads, because ad-free was a subscription offer that was limited and had to be specifically clicked on (the general site subscription wasn't the same as the ad-free one). I want to support journalism! I give out $100ish a-month in pixiv fanbox subscriptions and patreon subscriptions. But I'm not going to give any payment information to sketchy sites that just make it impossible to cancel and have terrible experiences. It's not worth paying for the hassle of that.
- gkoberger 5y agoSo basically he makes it so people can steal articles... and then he's realizing that yeah, running a website is expensive and that's why companies have paywalls in the first place.
- wutwut5521 5y agoI find the site useful and want to pay, but don’t want a browser extension.
- spicybright 5y agoWhy would you be required to download the extension?
- wrs 5y agoThe “Why?” section of the home page is rather disingenuous, since the Economist is not “SEO optimized garbage”, nor does it want you to “sign up for some newsletter”. It’s just an excellent newspaper that needs to pay the staff that writes all those articles. Just like 12ft.io needs to pay its hosting provider.
- Day1 5y agoMeh, to each their own. I’m inclined to agree with 12ft.io on that front
- 2OEH8eoCRo0 5y agoIt's disingenuous to tease content that is behind a paywall.
- mdoms 5y agoSomeone better tell every movie studio on Earth that's it's disingenuous to make movie trailers.
- spiderice 5y agoSurely you don’t need someone to point out to you that those aren’t the same things.
- mdoms 5y agoYou're right. One of them is professionally produced content, advertised with a preview to whet your appetite, where you're expected to pay for the right to consume it fully. While the other is.... uhh.... the same thing.
- morelish 5y agoGuess that’s the thing. When it shows up in your search result, we do expect it to be ready to read without paying for it. This is partly Google’s fault for not making it easier to exclude paywalled content. Would paywalled content-providers like Google implementing that feature? I doubt it. But also we can use something like 12ft.io.
- throwaway81523 5y agoI kind of laughed at that, but it seems like asking for trouble. Bypassing paywalls on a slightly underground basis is something the publications might tolerate or live with like ad blockers, but doing it for profit is painting a target on your back. Also I wonder what kind of hosting 12ft is using, where bandwith costs so much, unless they are using 100s of TB per month or more (maybe they are). These days there is tons of super low cost bandwidth if you bypass the big providers.
- cranberryturkey 5y agoexactly even a 10gbps line would only be a fraction of what AWS would charge you at a smaller outfit.
- gzer0 5y agoHow is 12ft Ladder any different than this Github repo that does the same thing? This is one of the more popular repos as well at 22k stars. Genuinely curious, as I've just been using [1] and have had no issues bypassing paywalls. If 12ft has access to more sites, or something, that would be a better use case. The owner of the repo does not even want donations, just a star, otherwise, I'd contribute! [1] https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome
- judge2020 5y ago12ft (and outline) request as a new user with a presumably fresh-ish IP address, which is sometimes required when the publication only sends the full article for completely new visitors (ie it can't be removed by clearing cookies and can't be removed by removing some paywall html/js).
- makeworld 5y agoIt's not any different. It actually can access fewer sites, since some sites have disabled it, presumably by paying the owner? The only advantage of 12ft.io is that you have a shareable link for friends, and that it can be used on mobile. Btw, you should switch the better maintained version of the Bypass Paywalls extension: https://gitlab.com/magnolia1234/bypass-paywalls-chrome-clean https://gitlab.com/magnolia1234/bypass-paywalls-chrome-clean
- judge2020 5y agoCease and desist most likely. NYT is arguably not publicly readable content, so the LinkedIn precedent doesn’t apply.
- PragmaticPulp 5y ago> How does it work? > The idea is pretty simple, news sites want Google to index their content so it shows up in search results. So they don't show a paywall to the Google crawler. We benefit from this because the Google crawler will cache a copy of the site every time it crawls it. > All we do is show you that cached, unpaywalled version of the page. This seems like something that could be accomplished entirely client-side, without incurring bandwidth costs to the server. Or am I missing something about how this service works?
- Swizec 5y agoYou can't do it client side. Well-implemented paywalls clip the content server-side. If you're Google, you get the full HTML, if you're not, you don't.
- isiahl 5y agoBut I could change my clients User Agent to match the Google Crawler?
- lmm 5y agoSure, and then you've got a cat-and-mouse game with all the other ways that sites can fingerprint you.
- dreamcompiler 5y agoNope. Because your IP address is not one of Google's. This trick worked years ago but not today.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- donkarma 5y agouse a GCP instance
- DantesKite 5y agoI don't understand. Isn't this stealing?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- iqanq 5y agoNo, because when you read an article a copy is made and sent to you. You are not depriving anybody from anything.
- ChrisLomont 5y agoIt is theft under federal law, punishable by up to 5 years in prison. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Electronic_Theft_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Electronic_Theft_Act
- probably_wrong 5y agoI read the text of the act [1] and the related sections in the US code [2]. I would argue that, assuming I read Title 18 correctly, this act doesn't apply to 12ft: the distribution is neither for "private financial gain" (Section 506.a) nor the distribution of "a work being prepared for commercial distribution" (because it's already released, Section 506.c). That leaves 506.b, but for that you need to show that the article has "a total retail value of more than $1,000" and is less than 180 days old. [1] https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/PLAW-105publ147 https://www.govinfo.gov/app/details/PLAW-105publ147 [2] https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text
- ChrisLomont 5y ago12ft.io is most certainly for financial gain. This thread is about them charging. Also the act defines financial gain not about money, but about things 12ft.io engages in :"‘The term ‘financial gain’ includes receipt, or expectation of receipt, of anything of value, including the receipt of other copyrighted works." Goodwill is considered value, even is included in company valuations. If 12ft.io expects or receives goodwill (which it does), it has financial gain. And there's still simple good old infringement, at $150k a pop, which would likely put 12ft.io on the hook for millions to billions of dollars. Each unique article served carries a $150k bill. There's also likely many other statues, such as accessing a computer for committing a crime, which is yet more federal prison time. Whomever runs 12ft.io had better hope they can hide before someone locates and charges them.
- jrochkind1 5y agoFrom the home page explanation.... > How does it work? > The idea is pretty simple, news sites want Google to index their content so it shows up in search results. So they don't show a paywall to the Google crawler. We benefit from this because the Google crawler will cache a copy of the site every time it crawls it. > All we do is show you that cached, unpaywalled version of the page. — https://12ft.io/ https://12ft.io/ They're just showing you Google cache? Like.. what you can get by putting `cache:` in front of a URL in chrome? (Or using an extension in Firefox?). So, this site gives you access to the same thing by putting `12ft.io/ ` in front of the URL instead of, say, `cache:`? Is there something more to it? That... seems like an interesting thing to ask people to pay for.
- vimy 5y agoI doubt that’s how it really works.
- quickthrower2 5y agoI suspect they cache the cache? And resolve any css issues?
- PragmaticPulp 5y agoI'm also confused. Their description seems incomplete, perhaps intentionally so? I wonder if they're accessing pages from Google Compute Engine in an attempt to appear as a legitimate Google crawler? If they're just loading the cached Google pages like anyone else, I don't understand why it's hitting their servers at all.
- xchaotic 5y agoI have one almost legitimate use for 12ft.io - sharing links for a paid subscription news site where I actually pay the annual fee and the site has it’s own way of letting users share articles with friends and family. But the built in process is onerous, one has to sign up and they nag you to subscribe which is a long journey to read one article. So I hope 12ft guy can find a niche like that to sustain a legitimate business.
- newsclues 5y agoI’ve always found paying for pirated content (dvds, or streaming services) was gross.
- ketzo 5y agoThis person is asking for money in order to help provide a service… and that service is “stop other people from asking for money to provide a service.” Hard not to feel a little irony. There are approximately three outcomes here. 1. Google shuts this guy down, some way or another 2. Paywalled sites sue this into oblivion Or worst of all, 3. Google stops being able to usefully surface decent news content. Paywalls are annoying, but this is not a long-term solution.
- HWR_14 5y agoHow is "Google isn't allowed to scrap site to power their site for free" the worst option. Google can write a few checks to access the data. They have enough money.
- sverhagen 5y agoIf publishers wanted Google to not index their data without paying for it, they'd already asked them not to index, robots.txt and what not? I find it more likely that Google would come up with some sort of API that publishers can register, so that Google can get in (and 12ft can not)?
- anonporridge 5y agoA long term solution is micropayments. I'm happy to pay a few cents to read an article. I'm absolutely NOT happy to be forced to sign up for 10 different subscriptions.
- whywhywhywhy 5y agoEvery time I tried to use this thing it said it was disabled for every site I tried.
- o_____________o 5y agoYeah, "12ft has been disabled for this site"
- godelski 5y agoFor example, I was just looking at a NYT article and nothing happened: https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-financing-the-multi-trillion-dollar-transition-to-net-zero-isnt-that-hard-11636018200 https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-fin... Similarly Outline: https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-financing-the-multi-trillion-dollar-transition-to-net-zero-isnt-that-hard-11636018200 https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-financing-the-multi-trillio... But the current top comment's txtify did: https://txtify.it/https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-financing-the-multi-trillion-dollar-transition-to-net-zero-isnt-that-hard-11636018200 https://txtify.it/https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-financing... (though this doesn't have pictures) Honestly I find that the vast majority of these services don't work. And then when they do work they don't work for long and we're just in a cat and mouse game.
- john-doe 5y agohttps://archive.is/J2x72 https://archive.is/J2x72
- D895n9o33436N42 5y ago
- greatjack613 5y agoCheck out https://webreader.app https://webreader.app , it works with way more sites and is privacy preserving.
- m348e912 5y agoThis works pretty well, thank you.
- john-doe 5y agoI used 12ft for some time and got tired of loading bloated news websites twice. Archive.today is a good alternative but means making copies of crap articles somewhere else, while I just want to read them once. Ultimately I recommend txtify.it, a service that uses Readability, as a more sensible solution. Bookmarklet: javascript:q=location.hostname+location.pathname;location.href="https://txtify.it/"+q https://txtify.it/"+q;
- 878654Tom 5y agoWhy not use the reader viewer feature of Firefox and Chrome? With Firefox I even like the fact that you can use text2speech so very long stories can be put on the background.
- newbie789 5y ago
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 5y agoGenerally, for recreational web use, I never use Javascript, or even CSS. I prefer to use a text-only browser. There are websites that apparently have "paywalls", but without Javascript, I do not even know these "paywalls" exist. I read every article on a website without any indication of any limitations. The NY Times and The Economist are examples. What people refer to as "paywalls" are simply Javascript annoyances. One has to run the Javascript to experience the annoyance. Perhaps the "privilege" of running the website's Javascript is a "benefit" of subscription. However I would not run the Javascript regardless of whether I was subscribed or not. That choice has nothing to do with the idea of "paywall". I choose not to run Javascript on any website. This improves the web experience for me in too many ways to count. News publications could approach susbscription as (a) access versus (b) no access, e.g., password-protection. Yet some publications approach subscription instead as (a) access without Javascript annoyances versus (b) access with Javascript annoyances. Of course (b) only applies if one chooses to run the Javascript. Every web user has the option not to run other people's code, i.e., Javascript. The access model that scientific journals use seems to work well enough. Access is granted to an IP address. If the subscriber is on a different IP address, she can get access through a password-protected proxy.
- cranberryturkey 5y agoI built something like this with 500k urls in the db, then sqlite shit the bed and now I can't use it.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Brajeshwar 5y agoI honestly won't mind paying publishers to read the articles I want to read. However, I'm not interested in reading 90% of the articles from a publication/website. I hope, there will be an easy and seamless way to pay-as-you-read per article or a day/week/month pass. It is not that I don't know how to "hack" and find ways to read paywalled articles -- almost every paywalled website is un-paywallable. It is that it is very irritating, and taxes the brain. I pay for quite a few of them, hoping to support the writers, and do not worry about finding ways to find ways around. Eventually, I do NOT read more than 2-3 articles a week from them. Most of the time, months goes by without even stumbling on a single article from such publications.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- animex 5y agoIs there any way to filter out the paywalled links on HN? I'd rather just browse free web content than fight with paywalls and bypassers.
- jokowueu 5y agoIt doesn't work with known websites . I guess they are paid off by them ?