9 ms·

So, surprisingly, this rant is more or less accurate, imo. (I went to med school, residency, fellowship) I mean some things stronger than others, but it hits o

by arn 15y ago

So, surprisingly, this rant is more or less accurate, imo. (I went to med school, residency, fellowship) I mean some things stronger than others, but it hits on the major negatives as you go through training. I know a lot of these rants tend to romanticize how hard people's own professions are in a "no one else has it this hard" type stance. We see similar "how hard it is to be a programmer" type rants as well. But, I'll pull out the one aspect that I've always felt I lost. "3) You will spend the best years of your life as a sleep-deprived, underpaid slave." I do feel like I missed being young (20s) and just having a regular job, enjoying life with my friends. 4 years of medical school, and 3 years of residency pretty much wipe out age 22-29. So I do regret that.

verisimilitude 15y ago
I'm dental myself (waay easier than med in my opinion), but I do have friends in med. (Well, people I used to spend time with before they got socked with residency). So, I'm curious: were you _relieved_ to be able to take a different path than working as a doctor?
- arn 15y ago
  It's the sort of thing you aren't fully aware of while you are in it. After I quit practicing, it really felt like an enormous weight had been lifted. Just due to the responsibilities involved. People ask me if I miss it. I do not. That said, I don't want to make it sound like it was terrible. There was a fair amount of job satisfaction and rewards as well, like most things, and at the time I felt like I enjoyed it.
  - niels_olson 15y ago
    arn, thanks for sharing, truly. I'm a general medical officer in the Navy (Navy still puts docs to work after internship, applying for residency later. The work is mainly fast-track or urgent care style triaging and treating). I'm currently facing the choice of extending my current tour a year then going back to residency or taking a another two-year tour with the Marines and going to Afghanistan. I'm married with kids in California, so I could conceivably do either without moving the kids. Clearly, we have different paths, but why did you opt for the web over practicing? Along those lines, what was your fellowship? Where are you now? (Read: if you are in SoCal, I will take you to dinner of your choice in exchange for the conversation).
    - arn 15y ago
      Fellowship in nephrology. Now in Virginia. Financially, it became an easy decision. I was making enough that I didn't have to keep working in medicine. Beyond that, I had my first child around that time, and didn't want to lose that time. Feel free to email me if you have any further questions (email in profile).
      - niels_olson 15y ago
        thanks.
inportb 15y ago
... pretty much. I'm doing med school now, and it's been fun. How does one balance this stuff with hackery and such? "You don't" is the answer I've been getting, but I suspect/hope that it takes some clever time management.
- arn 15y ago
  I started MacRumors.com in my 4th year of medical school, which is a very light year. And it grew in the following years. I quit in 2008 to do it (and other sites) full time.
  - inportb 15y ago
    Thanks for assuring me that it is at least possible. I guess I'm still one of those idealistic greenhorns... thinking that I'd be more useful to the medical community if I were also a computer hacker.
  - oacgnol 15y ago
    Assuming you grew up with Asian parents (disclaimer: I did), how'd breaking the news to your parents go when you decided to leave school and run a website full-time?
    - arn 15y ago
      parents took it surprisingly well. don't think they would have taken it well if I had tried to quit years earlier. the site had grown pretty big/successful, and they mellowed over the years.
    - inportb 15y ago
      I grew up with Asian parents (who are doctors themselves, no less). Before I went off to med school, they were actually pretty open to other career choices. We spent quite a bit of time making sure that medicine was the way to go before confirming my enrollment. But after that, they've been committed to preventing me from giving up ;p
tryitnow 15y ago
I sometimes wish I had gone to medical school - now is an amazing time to be in healthcare. Technology has the potential to have a huge impact. Here's the problem: most intelligent driven people are not going to be satisfied with "having a regular job, enjoying life, etc" Sorry, it's just not built into us. Sure, we want those things, but we also want that sense of achievement or of making a valuable contribution to something bigger than our immediate concerns (e.g. a big impact startup, saving the world, or cure someone's illness). The key to health is not losing sight of the "regular things" in life while still pursuing our ambitions. In medicine it's sometimes hard to see the positive impact you're having. Or maybe you don't think you are having a positive impact. If that's the case then figure out what the problem is and hack it. One thing that won't fly is pining away for a "regular life" - If you were really going to be satisfied with that you would have taken that route a long time ago. Believe me, there are people with regular lives who are wishing they went to medical school....
- arn 15y ago
  I up voted you, because I agree with some of your points. But I don't agree with the rest of it. There are those, especially who visit this site, who are smart, have a lot of motivation, and want to do something great. Enterpreneurship is a hard life as well. Running a startup will suck much your life as much as residency or medical school might. As you say though the key to health is not losing sight of the "regular things". The problem with medical school and residency is that you have little control over that. You will lose sight of the regular things. You won't be enjoying your life. And here's the big catch... you won't be changing the world, either. Being a doctor is not glamorous, if you think it is, re-read the rant because he touches on much of it. And, very few people have an actual "passion" for medicine. I don't think I've met one person. Someone who would be doing medicine even if they didn't have to. Maybe your startup won't change the world either, but at least you might have a personal passion for it or the process. My point is that for those with regular lives who wish they went to medical school... What's the reason? Read the rant. It's the wrong reason. (he even spells out that there is only one good reason to go into medicine)
roentgen 15y ago
I had a different experience. Medical school was easy, I was single and went out drinking / partying two or three nights a week. Not to be crass, but I did well with the ladies. Luckily I can get by on four hours of sleep or less. So, I don't feel like I missed out on much of the early twenties experience. Most of my non-medical friends had jobs and I didn't, but that was the only real difference. Things got a little more serious my intern year, but I still managed to go out twice a week, and the nurses were much more responsive to my advances now that I was doctor. At the start of my residency I got serious with a girl from my medical school. Her training was in Psychiatry and I was in Radiology. We worked a minimum of 80 hours a week, but we always had time for each other. We got married during third year. Now I'm a partner in a successful practice, and she's taking a few years off to raise the kids. I make over 800k a year, and take 14 weeks of vacation. I don't deal with patients. I have the ultimate job security. And, I am a tremendous resource for my family. I'm sure you know how easy it is to get screwed by the medical system. That won't happen to me or mine. I'm not a risk taker, so what else could I be doing with the security and benefits of my current job? Lawyer, maybe.
- patrickgzill 15y ago
  Thank you for your honesty. May I ask, what exactly do you do that you feel justifies your 800k per year? It seems to me that your career is ripe for disruption.
  - adrianwaj 15y ago
    Disruption is learning about and becoming healthy, or for example, one may spend their life savings on some supposed cancer treatment involving chemo, surgery and radiation.
  - marknutter 15y ago
    He makes that much as a partner of a practice, not as a doctor at a hospital. This is no different than being a founder of a successful small business.
    - 15y ago
jseliger 15y ago
The article is also missing something vital: medicine shuts down so many options. By the time you're down, you're so indebted that residency is the only thing that makes sense. Penelope Trunk gets this: http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2011/08/30/the-best-alternative-to-grad-school/ http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2011/08/30/the-best-alternativ... , but few others do. I'm dating a newly minted resident, and she's inspired me to start my own essay and why not to be a doctor. Her, and a lot of the freshmen I teach who say they want to be doctor. If you want to work in medicine, be a nurse instead. If you're the sort of person who'd like to see a draft, send an e-mail to seligerj [AT] gmail ((dot)) com .

by arn 15y ago

verisimilitude 15y ago

I'm dental myself (waay easier than med in my opinion), but I do have friends in med. (Well, people I used to spend time with before they got socked with residency). So, I'm curious: were you _relieved_ to be able to take a different path than working as a doctor?

arn 15y ago
It's the sort of thing you aren't fully aware of while you are in it. After I quit practicing, it really felt like an enormous weight had been lifted. Just due to the responsibilities involved. People ask me if I miss it. I do not. That said, I don't want to make it sound like it was terrible. There was a fair amount of job satisfaction and rewards as well, like most things, and at the time I felt like I enjoyed it.
- niels_olson 15y ago
  arn, thanks for sharing, truly. I'm a general medical officer in the Navy (Navy still puts docs to work after internship, applying for residency later. The work is mainly fast-track or urgent care style triaging and treating). I'm currently facing the choice of extending my current tour a year then going back to residency or taking a another two-year tour with the Marines and going to Afghanistan. I'm married with kids in California, so I could conceivably do either without moving the kids. Clearly, we have different paths, but why did you opt for the web over practicing? Along those lines, what was your fellowship? Where are you now? (Read: if you are in SoCal, I will take you to dinner of your choice in exchange for the conversation).
  - arn 15y ago
    Fellowship in nephrology. Now in Virginia. Financially, it became an easy decision. I was making enough that I didn't have to keep working in medicine. Beyond that, I had my first child around that time, and didn't want to lose that time. Feel free to email me if you have any further questions (email in profile).
    - niels_olson 15y ago
      thanks.

inportb 15y ago

... pretty much. I'm doing med school now, and it's been fun. How does one balance this stuff with hackery and such? "You don't" is the answer I've been getting, but I suspect/hope that it takes some clever time management.

arn 15y ago
I started MacRumors.com in my 4th year of medical school, which is a very light year. And it grew in the following years. I quit in 2008 to do it (and other sites) full time.
- inportb 15y ago
  Thanks for assuring me that it is at least possible. I guess I'm still one of those idealistic greenhorns... thinking that I'd be more useful to the medical community if I were also a computer hacker.
- oacgnol 15y ago
  Assuming you grew up with Asian parents (disclaimer: I did), how'd breaking the news to your parents go when you decided to leave school and run a website full-time?
  - arn 15y ago
    parents took it surprisingly well. don't think they would have taken it well if I had tried to quit years earlier. the site had grown pretty big/successful, and they mellowed over the years.
  - inportb 15y ago
    I grew up with Asian parents (who are doctors themselves, no less). Before I went off to med school, they were actually pretty open to other career choices. We spent quite a bit of time making sure that medicine was the way to go before confirming my enrollment. But after that, they've been committed to preventing me from giving up ;p

tryitnow 15y ago

I sometimes wish I had gone to medical school - now is an amazing time to be in healthcare. Technology has the potential to have a huge impact. Here's the problem: most intelligent driven people are not going to be satisfied with "having a regular job, enjoying life, etc" Sorry, it's just not built into us. Sure, we want those things, but we also want that sense of achievement or of making a valuable contribution to something bigger than our immediate concerns (e.g. a big impact startup, saving the world, or cure someone's illness). The key to health is not losing sight of the "regular things" in life while still pursuing our ambitions. In medicine it's sometimes hard to see the positive impact you're having. Or maybe you don't think you are having a positive impact. If that's the case then figure out what the problem is and hack it. One thing that won't fly is pining away for a "regular life" - If you were really going to be satisfied with that you would have taken that route a long time ago. Believe me, there are people with regular lives who are wishing they went to medical school....

arn 15y ago
I up voted you, because I agree with some of your points. But I don't agree with the rest of it. There are those, especially who visit this site, who are smart, have a lot of motivation, and want to do something great. Enterpreneurship is a hard life as well. Running a startup will suck much your life as much as residency or medical school might. As you say though the key to health is not losing sight of the "regular things". The problem with medical school and residency is that you have little control over that. You will lose sight of the regular things. You won't be enjoying your life. And here's the big catch... you won't be changing the world, either. Being a doctor is not glamorous, if you think it is, re-read the rant because he touches on much of it. And, very few people have an actual "passion" for medicine. I don't think I've met one person. Someone who would be doing medicine even if they didn't have to. Maybe your startup won't change the world either, but at least you might have a personal passion for it or the process. My point is that for those with regular lives who wish they went to medical school... What's the reason? Read the rant. It's the wrong reason. (he even spells out that there is only one good reason to go into medicine)

roentgen 15y ago

I had a different experience. Medical school was easy, I was single and went out drinking / partying two or three nights a week. Not to be crass, but I did well with the ladies. Luckily I can get by on four hours of sleep or less. So, I don't feel like I missed out on much of the early twenties experience. Most of my non-medical friends had jobs and I didn't, but that was the only real difference. Things got a little more serious my intern year, but I still managed to go out twice a week, and the nurses were much more responsive to my advances now that I was doctor. At the start of my residency I got serious with a girl from my medical school. Her training was in Psychiatry and I was in Radiology. We worked a minimum of 80 hours a week, but we always had time for each other. We got married during third year. Now I'm a partner in a successful practice, and she's taking a few years off to raise the kids. I make over 800k a year, and take 14 weeks of vacation. I don't deal with patients. I have the ultimate job security. And, I am a tremendous resource for my family. I'm sure you know how easy it is to get screwed by the medical system. That won't happen to me or mine. I'm not a risk taker, so what else could I be doing with the security and benefits of my current job? Lawyer, maybe.

patrickgzill 15y ago
Thank you for your honesty. May I ask, what exactly do you do that you feel justifies your 800k per year? It seems to me that your career is ripe for disruption.
- adrianwaj 15y ago
  Disruption is learning about and becoming healthy, or for example, one may spend their life savings on some supposed cancer treatment involving chemo, surgery and radiation.
- marknutter 15y ago
  He makes that much as a partner of a practice, not as a doctor at a hospital. This is no different than being a founder of a successful small business.
  - 15y ago

jseliger 15y ago

The article is also missing something vital: medicine shuts down so many options. By the time you're down, you're so indebted that residency is the only thing that makes sense. Penelope Trunk gets this: http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2011/08/30/the-best-alternative-to-grad-school/ http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2011/08/30/the-best-alternativ... , but few others do. I'm dating a newly minted resident, and she's inspired me to start my own essay and why not to be a doctor. Her, and a lot of the freshmen I teach who say they want to be doctor. If you want to work in medicine, be a nurse instead. If you're the sort of person who'd like to see a draft, send an e-mail to seligerj [AT] gmail ((dot)) com .