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So maybe the direct effect of those companies is negative, but overall the indirect products, causes multiply revolutions, specially in the field of AI and deep

So maybe the direct effect of those companies is negative, but overall the indirect products, causes multiply revolutions, specially in the field of AI and deep learning. Most of the open source tools today (e.g. kubernetes, tensorflow, pytorch) are not coming from academia , but from big tech companies. The problem is not those companies, but rather the consumers do not want to pay for anything online. Hence, the need for advertising, privacy issues, etc.

lumost 5y ago
Perhaps the issue is that consumers lack the choice to pay? We're seeing a proliferation of online services that charge money. I only wish that the standard when I pay for a service is to have an ad-free experience.
- streetcat1 5y ago
  Just look for free app vs paid app in the app store. Most consumers do not even want to pay 0.99 for apps which took at least 6 figures to develop.
  - lumost 5y ago
    Most apps in the app store are pretty useless or one offs. I pay for photo storage, file storage, grammar checking, IDEs, and useful/interesting content.
IHLayman 5y ago
"Most of the open source tools today (e.g. kubernetes, tensorflow, pytorch) are not coming from academia , but from big tech companies." The three projects chosen for the argument were started by companies, but let's dig a bit deeper. Kubernetes wouldn't be possible without container technology, enabled by modules contributed to Linux, and Linux did not start in a company, but rather by a student at the University of Helsinki. Pytorch wouldn't exist without Python, which was started at CWI (another research institute) in the Netherlands. Heck, we are having this argument over a protocol developed by CERN. The references seem to indicate a bias towards machine learning, but I can tell you that the researchers working on these tools would still be doing so at a university even if the companies weren't bankrolling the salaries, and even though they are at a company, they still act as if they are in academia. Thus, I would claim that saying "most of the open source tools today are not coming from academia" is short-sighted at best. The revolutions are happening in academia, where it is safer to do more greenfield research, as opposed to working in a company where you have to have a shorter runway to profitability. "The problem is not those companies, but rather the consumers do not want to pay for anything online. Hence, the need for advertising, privacy issues, etc." IMHO, the problem exists on both sides. Yes, someone needs to pay to keep the lights on, and consumers should be expected to pay a nominal fee for some services. But they shouldn't need to pay with their privacy, or by shady manipulation, or by disingenuous EULAs. I don't know the solution, but I do know that cookie tracking isn't it, nor forcing people to watch ads with eye tracking like MoviePass is suggesting, nor surreptitiously spying on people's watching habits to subsidize TVs.
- streetcat1 5y ago
  So, specifically for containers, cgroups were donated by google. Of course innovations build on existing innovations. My point is that the by-product of big tech is a useful set of tools which would not exist without substantial R&D investment subsidized by revenues from ads. Also, I am looking at reality vs what should be. If given an option, consumers would not pay, not even 0.99. This is reality. I.e. consumer are willing to give away their privacy for 0$ and free tools.

lumost 5y ago

Perhaps the issue is that consumers lack the choice to pay? We're seeing a proliferation of online services that charge money. I only wish that the standard when I pay for a service is to have an ad-free experience.

streetcat1 5y ago
Just look for free app vs paid app in the app store. Most consumers do not even want to pay 0.99 for apps which took at least 6 figures to develop.
- lumost 5y ago
  Most apps in the app store are pretty useless or one offs. I pay for photo storage, file storage, grammar checking, IDEs, and useful/interesting content.

IHLayman 5y ago

"Most of the open source tools today (e.g. kubernetes, tensorflow, pytorch) are not coming from academia , but from big tech companies." The three projects chosen for the argument were started by companies, but let's dig a bit deeper. Kubernetes wouldn't be possible without container technology, enabled by modules contributed to Linux, and Linux did not start in a company, but rather by a student at the University of Helsinki. Pytorch wouldn't exist without Python, which was started at CWI (another research institute) in the Netherlands. Heck, we are having this argument over a protocol developed by CERN. The references seem to indicate a bias towards machine learning, but I can tell you that the researchers working on these tools would still be doing so at a university even if the companies weren't bankrolling the salaries, and even though they are at a company, they still act as if they are in academia. Thus, I would claim that saying "most of the open source tools today are not coming from academia" is short-sighted at best. The revolutions are happening in academia, where it is safer to do more greenfield research, as opposed to working in a company where you have to have a shorter runway to profitability. "The problem is not those companies, but rather the consumers do not want to pay for anything online. Hence, the need for advertising, privacy issues, etc." IMHO, the problem exists on both sides. Yes, someone needs to pay to keep the lights on, and consumers should be expected to pay a nominal fee for some services. But they shouldn't need to pay with their privacy, or by shady manipulation, or by disingenuous EULAs. I don't know the solution, but I do know that cookie tracking isn't it, nor forcing people to watch ads with eye tracking like MoviePass is suggesting, nor surreptitiously spying on people's watching habits to subsidize TVs.

streetcat1 5y ago
So, specifically for containers, cgroups were donated by google. Of course innovations build on existing innovations. My point is that the by-product of big tech is a useful set of tools which would not exist without substantial R&D investment subsidized by revenues from ads. Also, I am looking at reality vs what should be. If given an option, consumers would not pay, not even 0.99. This is reality. I.e. consumer are willing to give away their privacy for 0$ and free tools.