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> This shoplifting epidemic is happening because no one is going to jail for this. Is that true? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/17/walmart-shopl

> This shoplifting epidemic is happening because no one is going to jail for this. Is that true? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/17/walmart-shoplifting-helping-hike-sentences-court https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/may/17/walmart-shop...

buscoquadnary 5y ago
The article you have provided is from 2018 and primarily deals with a single individual that had several other outstanding warrants, it has no bearing on what was stated prior.
- tomlockwood 5y ago
  It sounded like what you said was "This shoplifting epidemic is happening because no one is going to jail for this." I disagree, I do think people are going to jail for this.
rsj_hn 5y ago
I don't think that they literally meant "no one", but rather that a small group of people commit a majority of the crimes, and if those people were behind bars, the crimes rates would fall back to normal levels. There is evidence to support this thesis. First, we do know that a small group of people commit most of the crimes. Second, we see that in the U.S. when we let people out of institutions the crime rate went up until mass incarceration removed a roughly equivalent amount of people from society. So there are about 2 million people who commit a huge number of crimes, and we need to decide, as a society, whether to lock these people up or live with the higher crime rates. I don't think there is much evidence that criminals can actually be treated somehow to be reformed, they are either tolerated* or warehoused until they age out. (*) One middle ground of toleration you see in developing countries is creating zones where crimes can be committed more freely and rich people can buy their own security or live in zones where crimes are punished. Then criminals learn to avoid those zones. That's what a lot of nations (such as Argentina) do which have a large criminal class (like the U.S.) but that can't afford the costs of mass incarceration. They create geographic bubbles in which crime is low.
- tomlockwood 5y ago
  Argentinian approach to crime and inflation! Perfect :D
- seanmcdirmid 5y ago
  > One middle ground of toleration you see in developing countries is creating zones where crimes can be committed more freely and rich people can buy their own security or live in zones where crimes are punished. This is already happening in the USA. Bellevue WA has a much lower crime rate than Seattle WA. It isn't the rich people "buying" their own security, however, rather than them demanding their police are more numerous and tougher on crime than the city across the lake (pushing the problem over there). Even if King County (where Seattle and Bellevue are) doesn't prosecute, the people doing these things get annoyed with constant police interaction and harassment and so find Seattle much more appealing.

buscoquadnary 5y ago

The article you have provided is from 2018 and primarily deals with a single individual that had several other outstanding warrants, it has no bearing on what was stated prior.

tomlockwood 5y ago
It sounded like what you said was "This shoplifting epidemic is happening because no one is going to jail for this." I disagree, I do think people are going to jail for this.

rsj_hn 5y ago

I don't think that they literally meant "no one", but rather that a small group of people commit a majority of the crimes, and if those people were behind bars, the crimes rates would fall back to normal levels. There is evidence to support this thesis. First, we do know that a small group of people commit most of the crimes. Second, we see that in the U.S. when we let people out of institutions the crime rate went up until mass incarceration removed a roughly equivalent amount of people from society. So there are about 2 million people who commit a huge number of crimes, and we need to decide, as a society, whether to lock these people up or live with the higher crime rates. I don't think there is much evidence that criminals can actually be treated somehow to be reformed, they are either tolerated* or warehoused until they age out. (*) One middle ground of toleration you see in developing countries is creating zones where crimes can be committed more freely and rich people can buy their own security or live in zones where crimes are punished. Then criminals learn to avoid those zones. That's what a lot of nations (such as Argentina) do which have a large criminal class (like the U.S.) but that can't afford the costs of mass incarceration. They create geographic bubbles in which crime is low.

tomlockwood 5y ago
Argentinian approach to crime and inflation! Perfect :D
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
> One middle ground of toleration you see in developing countries is creating zones where crimes can be committed more freely and rich people can buy their own security or live in zones where crimes are punished. This is already happening in the USA. Bellevue WA has a much lower crime rate than Seattle WA. It isn't the rich people "buying" their own security, however, rather than them demanding their police are more numerous and tougher on crime than the city across the lake (pushing the problem over there). Even if King County (where Seattle and Bellevue are) doesn't prosecute, the people doing these things get annoyed with constant police interaction and harassment and so find Seattle much more appealing.