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He is arguing that decentralized systems are incapable of keeping up with the times due to inability to herd the cats. As evidence I would submit that it's 202

by api 5y ago

He is arguing that decentralized systems are incapable of keeping up with the times due to inability to herd the cats. As evidence I would submit that it's 2022 and we are still using IPv4. A centrally managed Internet could have upgraded to IPv6 in one day. Send out update. Everything updates. Done. There is a genuine and IMHO very significant problem here. If this problem can be solved it will require a different approach from the ones already tried. Pretending the problem doesn't exist doesn't help.

Plasmoid 5y ago
I like your optimism but even in centrally managed systems people won't upgrade. I've been harassing other employees to move away from our old Prometheus instance to our new one and it's been a real uphill battle. The only work is (1) copy over the alerts they want to keep to the new storage location. By copy, I mean literally copy. (2) Change the datasource pointer in grafana to the new prometheus location
- Godel_unicode 5y ago
  Counterpoint, basically everyone who runs them runs up-to-date Chrome and iOS. This is more an argument that some centralized systems are poorly (or perhaps weakly?) managed. Could you not copy their alerts and use DNS aliases and/or load-balancing to migrate them?
  - Plasmoid 5y ago
    We're trying to slowly reduce the amount of technical debt we've built up. It's not a naive copy and paste for us, since it's possible they've done silly things, but for teams they will understand what the alerts are for. That said, I've had teams forget they had alerts at all or outright deny they owned alerts on their service.
gnufx 5y ago
Someone who wasn't on JANET in the '90s, for instance?
freeopinion 5y ago
I don't understand your point. In some alternate reality, there could be some IPv4 internet that was centrally managed and contained like 3 routers and 20 total nodes? Yeah? What does that have to do with anything? The internet became the internet expressly because it wasn't centrally controlled. If it were centrally controlled from the beginning it would never have outgrown IPv4. See also IPX.

by api 5y ago

Plasmoid 5y ago

I like your optimism but even in centrally managed systems people won't upgrade. I've been harassing other employees to move away from our old Prometheus instance to our new one and it's been a real uphill battle. The only work is (1) copy over the alerts they want to keep to the new storage location. By copy, I mean literally copy. (2) Change the datasource pointer in grafana to the new prometheus location

Godel_unicode 5y ago
Counterpoint, basically everyone who runs them runs up-to-date Chrome and iOS. This is more an argument that some centralized systems are poorly (or perhaps weakly?) managed. Could you not copy their alerts and use DNS aliases and/or load-balancing to migrate them?
- Plasmoid 5y ago
  We're trying to slowly reduce the amount of technical debt we've built up. It's not a naive copy and paste for us, since it's possible they've done silly things, but for teams they will understand what the alerts are for. That said, I've had teams forget they had alerts at all or outright deny they owned alerts on their service.

gnufx 5y ago

Someone who wasn't on JANET in the '90s, for instance?

freeopinion 5y ago

I don't understand your point. In some alternate reality, there could be some IPv4 internet that was centrally managed and contained like 3 routers and 20 total nodes? Yeah? What does that have to do with anything? The internet became the internet expressly because it wasn't centrally controlled. If it were centrally controlled from the beginning it would never have outgrown IPv4. See also IPX.