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As a Swiss I am appalled by this stance of showing force by the US instead of de-escalation the situation. I see zero de-escalation from the US. The US press se

As a Swiss I am appalled by this stance of showing force by the US instead of de-escalation the situation. I see zero de-escalation from the US. The US press seems "Geil für Krieg" (horny for war), it's disgusting. The only ones trying to prevent this war with at least some diplomacy is Germany and France. What the US is doing is the same as before the Iraq war and it is the wrong thing.

chitowneats 5y ago
Allowing Putin to march right through Warsaw on the way to Berlin is not the right thing. The Germans and the French are incredibly lucky to have their defense and continued independence financed by such a distant power. Most people on Earth aren't so lucky as to have the Swiss Alps as a natural deterrent to foreign aggression.
nradov 5y ago
What specific sort of de-escalation would you propose? Should the US offer, let's say, 10% more of Ukraine's territory to Russia if they agree to pull back their invasion force?
dragonwriter 5y ago
> As a Swiss I am appalled by this stance of showing force by the US instead of de-escalation the situation. The deployment of small numbers of troops (the total deployed by the US to Eastern Europe as a response to the crisis is less than 1/30 the Russian deployment on the borders of Ukraine) is not a show of force (it is a show of commitment that the US cannot avoid being engaged should Russia invade beyond Ukraine into NATO countries in the region, but nothing more; it's a tripwire force.) > I see zero de-escalation from the US You aren't looking very hard. > The US press seems "Geil für Krieg" (horny for war), I have no idea what you are basing this on, that's certainly not the US press I see in America. > The only ones trying to prevent this war with at least some diplomacy is Germany and France. Germany has been giving more direct aid to Ukraine than the US, the idea that they are de-escalating while the US defensive deployment to NATO allies outside of Ukraine is escalation is...tortured, at best. > What the US is doing is the same as before the Iraq war No, it's not. No one in the US has called for offensive war (as was done on Iraq) or even defensive war in case of Russian action against Ukraine. The US has even openly stated that it will not even use it's military to evacuate US citizens in the event of an invasion by Russia, because to do so would be “world war”. It has threatened no action against Russia for merely continuing it's aggressive posture and it's current invasion and occupation of Ukraine, and only economic sanctions on the event of a total invasion of the rest of Ukraine. It has put forward no UN resolution, nor has it hinted that if the Security Council (where it called a discussion meeting but did not attempt to push any concrete action) failed to move to a resolution due to veto it would activate Uniting for Peace to try bypass the UNSC and bring resolution through the UNGA. The US is pursuing a policy of diplomacy with military forces only deployed in a manner to deter aggression beyond Ukraine, with no attempt to deploy capacity that would do anything to alter outcomes in Ukraine, much less take aggressive action against Russia. It couldn't be more different than Iraq in 2003.
marius_k 5y ago
from Budapest Memorandum: The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine

chitowneats 5y ago

Allowing Putin to march right through Warsaw on the way to Berlin is not the right thing. The Germans and the French are incredibly lucky to have their defense and continued independence financed by such a distant power. Most people on Earth aren't so lucky as to have the Swiss Alps as a natural deterrent to foreign aggression.

nradov 5y ago

What specific sort of de-escalation would you propose? Should the US offer, let's say, 10% more of Ukraine's territory to Russia if they agree to pull back their invasion force?

dragonwriter 5y ago

> As a Swiss I am appalled by this stance of showing force by the US instead of de-escalation the situation. The deployment of small numbers of troops (the total deployed by the US to Eastern Europe as a response to the crisis is less than 1/30 the Russian deployment on the borders of Ukraine) is not a show of force (it is a show of commitment that the US cannot avoid being engaged should Russia invade beyond Ukraine into NATO countries in the region, but nothing more; it's a tripwire force.) > I see zero de-escalation from the US You aren't looking very hard. > The US press seems "Geil für Krieg" (horny for war), I have no idea what you are basing this on, that's certainly not the US press I see in America. > The only ones trying to prevent this war with at least some diplomacy is Germany and France. Germany has been giving more direct aid to Ukraine than the US, the idea that they are de-escalating while the US defensive deployment to NATO allies outside of Ukraine is escalation is...tortured, at best. > What the US is doing is the same as before the Iraq war No, it's not. No one in the US has called for offensive war (as was done on Iraq) or even defensive war in case of Russian action against Ukraine. The US has even openly stated that it will not even use it's military to evacuate US citizens in the event of an invasion by Russia, because to do so would be “world war”. It has threatened no action against Russia for merely continuing it's aggressive posture and it's current invasion and occupation of Ukraine, and only economic sanctions on the event of a total invasion of the rest of Ukraine. It has put forward no UN resolution, nor has it hinted that if the Security Council (where it called a discussion meeting but did not attempt to push any concrete action) failed to move to a resolution due to veto it would activate Uniting for Peace to try bypass the UNSC and bring resolution through the UNGA. The US is pursuing a policy of diplomacy with military forces only deployed in a manner to deter aggression beyond Ukraine, with no attempt to deploy capacity that would do anything to alter outcomes in Ukraine, much less take aggressive action against Russia. It couldn't be more different than Iraq in 2003.

marius_k 5y ago

from Budapest Memorandum: The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_Ukraine