5 ms·

> The US is really flawed, but I wouldn't move back to the EU for double my family’s income. Which of the 27(8) countries did you live in, as they are rather d

> The US is really flawed, but I wouldn't move back to the EU for double my family’s income. Which of the 27(8) countries did you live in, as they are rather different?

DyslexicAtheist 5y ago
the problem with being an immigrant, and I have seen this on myself, is that we tend to see the host country through rose colored glasses (best case). Or if we are from a poor / unprivileged background we've been put through hell by trying to survive in the new country. And in the latter case it results in (worst case) those groups becoming the most extreme defenders of whatever that country does. That gets then compounded by having to defend your old customs (from your origin society) even that origin society has meanwhile moved on. The person who just moved to a new place is very unlikely to speak ill of their new hosts or join an activist group to fight against what is a local issue. It's generally a bad idea to poop where you eat but it's unthinkable when you consider yourself still a guest in that country. The whole thing takes generations usually.
- tagoregrtst 5y ago
  Agreed, its very common. But this doesn’t apply to me. Allow me to explain: I lived in four different countries across three continents seven different times by age 15. Throughout, middle class. Leaving Europe for Canada as a teen was extremely difficult. I still love Europe the place and Europe the people. Finally, I moved to the US from Canada - hardly polar opposites - and was reared on a diet of anti-Americanism that took ten years to shed. I didn't dream of coming to the US, the best grad program that I got accepted to was in the US. I didn’t want to stay, I got married. I came to love the US kicking and screaming.
tagoregrtst 5y ago
I speak three European languages at native level (Im ESL. Or is it ETL?) and can get along well enough in a fourth. I have the luxury of choice. And my problem isn't with Europeans, that is Englishmen, Ukrainians, Russians, or normal people in the EU. My problem is with Europes’ (note the plural, this isn't merely about the EU) institutions, the way they think, the mentality of what a person can do. At no point in the past two years was I prohibited under the yoke of arrest of going outside. My kids never stopped going to school except for the first two months. My kids don’t have to do security theater or wear masks. No law can, or does, limit my speech. If I had the misfortune of living in a bad neighborhood the law protects my right to defend myself against an intruder. On the whole, pick any EU country and they all failed on those accounts. Maybe Czechia or Hungary are cool on some of the above.
- gman83 5y ago
  Many US states have ongoing school indoor mask mandates. Also Czechia and Hungary are the two European countries most at risk of backsliding from democracy into authoritarianism.
  - shitgoose 5y ago
    The rest of EU is already there
  - tagoregrtst 5y ago
    I’ve lived in Cali. I wont make that mistake again. Czechia and Hungary sliding sliding into authoritarianism? Please. That just not serious.
    - CRConrad 5y ago
      Well, no, sure: At least Hungary probably isn't "sliding into" authoritarianism. Any more.
- CRConrad 5y ago
  >> Which of the 27(8) countries did you live in, as they are rather different? > I speak three European languages at native level Way not to answer the question. Also, BTW, you're probably wrong: Very high proficiency, maybe, but almost nobody speaks more than one language (or at the most, two) at a native level. But, sorry, I digress... To get back to the point: Way not to answer the question.
  - tagoregrtst 5y ago
    Most don't learn three (and a half) languages by age 11 and use all three often. When I speak any of the three, locals think Im a native speaker and readily spot in what region I learned the language (if they’re good, the town). In any of the three I can also spot where the speaker is from and I can pronounce all the subtle sounds that give foreigners away. Sounds that even natives cant pronounce since they are not universally present in regional dialects. Anyway, I didn't answer the question because what’s the point? I wouldn't live in Germany, or in Latvia, or in Spain, or in Greece for the reasons stated: restrictions on speech, blasphemy laws, anti-apologia of tyranny laws (commie or facist), laws effectively criminalizing self-defence. I also enjoy the self reliance of Americans; yes its exaggerated, but its more than Europeans anyway. Ive flirted with Switzerland, but that’s not the EU per my original comment (I wouldn't live in CH either. Love ’em though)

> The US is really flawed, but I wouldn't move back to the EU for double my family’s income. Which of the 27(8) countries did you live in, as they are rather different?

DyslexicAtheist 5y ago

the problem with being an immigrant, and I have seen this on myself, is that we tend to see the host country through rose colored glasses (best case). Or if we are from a poor / unprivileged background we've been put through hell by trying to survive in the new country. And in the latter case it results in (worst case) those groups becoming the most extreme defenders of whatever that country does. That gets then compounded by having to defend your old customs (from your origin society) even that origin society has meanwhile moved on. The person who just moved to a new place is very unlikely to speak ill of their new hosts or join an activist group to fight against what is a local issue. It's generally a bad idea to poop where you eat but it's unthinkable when you consider yourself still a guest in that country. The whole thing takes generations usually.

tagoregrtst 5y ago
Agreed, its very common. But this doesn’t apply to me. Allow me to explain: I lived in four different countries across three continents seven different times by age 15. Throughout, middle class. Leaving Europe for Canada as a teen was extremely difficult. I still love Europe the place and Europe the people. Finally, I moved to the US from Canada - hardly polar opposites - and was reared on a diet of anti-Americanism that took ten years to shed. I didn't dream of coming to the US, the best grad program that I got accepted to was in the US. I didn’t want to stay, I got married. I came to love the US kicking and screaming.

tagoregrtst 5y ago

I speak three European languages at native level (Im ESL. Or is it ETL?) and can get along well enough in a fourth. I have the luxury of choice. And my problem isn't with Europeans, that is Englishmen, Ukrainians, Russians, or normal people in the EU. My problem is with Europes’ (note the plural, this isn't merely about the EU) institutions, the way they think, the mentality of what a person can do. At no point in the past two years was I prohibited under the yoke of arrest of going outside. My kids never stopped going to school except for the first two months. My kids don’t have to do security theater or wear masks. No law can, or does, limit my speech. If I had the misfortune of living in a bad neighborhood the law protects my right to defend myself against an intruder. On the whole, pick any EU country and they all failed on those accounts. Maybe Czechia or Hungary are cool on some of the above.

gman83 5y ago
Many US states have ongoing school indoor mask mandates. Also Czechia and Hungary are the two European countries most at risk of backsliding from democracy into authoritarianism.
- shitgoose 5y ago
  The rest of EU is already there
- tagoregrtst 5y ago
  I’ve lived in Cali. I wont make that mistake again. Czechia and Hungary sliding sliding into authoritarianism? Please. That just not serious.
  - CRConrad 5y ago
    Well, no, sure: At least Hungary probably isn't "sliding into" authoritarianism. Any more.
CRConrad 5y ago
>> Which of the 27(8) countries did you live in, as they are rather different? > I speak three European languages at native level Way not to answer the question. Also, BTW, you're probably wrong: Very high proficiency, maybe, but almost nobody speaks more than one language (or at the most, two) at a native level. But, sorry, I digress... To get back to the point: Way not to answer the question.
- tagoregrtst 5y ago
  Most don't learn three (and a half) languages by age 11 and use all three often. When I speak any of the three, locals think Im a native speaker and readily spot in what region I learned the language (if they’re good, the town). In any of the three I can also spot where the speaker is from and I can pronounce all the subtle sounds that give foreigners away. Sounds that even natives cant pronounce since they are not universally present in regional dialects. Anyway, I didn't answer the question because what’s the point? I wouldn't live in Germany, or in Latvia, or in Spain, or in Greece for the reasons stated: restrictions on speech, blasphemy laws, anti-apologia of tyranny laws (commie or facist), laws effectively criminalizing self-defence. I also enjoy the self reliance of Americans; yes its exaggerated, but its more than Europeans anyway. Ive flirted with Switzerland, but that’s not the EU per my original comment (I wouldn't live in CH either. Love ’em though)