15 ms·

Look, I usually try to be charitable. However, this article offered no new insight on Apple Airtags. If you don't want to waste your time, allow me to summarize

Look, I usually try to be charitable. However, this article offered no new insight on Apple Airtags. If you don't want to waste your time, allow me to summarize: Woman puts Airtags in a car. Her husband isn't able to find them, even using Apple's "anti-stalk" features. Ergo, Apple needs to do more. I ask - what new insight did this article offer on Airtags? I don't think anyone can conclude either way on the effectiveness of Apple's "safety measures" when it comes to Airtags, from this small anecdote. In my mind, the article buries the Lede on the real discussion - should Apple be doing these measures at all? I find that issue far from settled when this article takes it for granted that not only should Apple take these safety measures, they should do more! The author also seems to be somewhat deceptive - "I sound like a terrible wife, but it's for journalism!" No, it seems like the author played a prank on her husband a while back and used that to neuroticaly follow him, then tried to excuse that behavior by writing this fluff piece. Anyways, I do think there is interesting discussion to be had about Airtags and if/what Apple should be doing to prevent unwanted tracking. However, this article didn't have that discussion or contribute to it in a meaningful way.

bberenberg 5y ago
I found the key quote to be "My husband, of course, had agreed to this in principle, but didn’t realize just how many devices I had planted on him. Of the seven trackers, he found only two: a Tile he felt in the breast pocket of his coat and an AirTag in his backpack when he was looking for something else. “It is impossible to find a device that makes no noise and gives no warning,” he said, when I showed him the ones he missed." which I read as "Apple needs to improve, but still drastically better than everything else out there" I am not in the market for AirTags, but if you are completely scatterbrained and this provides you a helpful way to manage your stuff, AirTags seem to be least bad way of doing this.
- ameminator 5y ago
  I actually tend to agree somewhat with your arguments. However, from the article, I don't think you can reach those conclusions like: "Apple needs to improve, but still drastically better than everything else out there" Where does the article talk about this class of device? Nowhere is a competing product mentioned or compared against. Even a Bluetooth keyfob, used to track keys by emitting a sound (and widely available) could have been used there. I like and agree with what you said, I just don't think the article makes those points, to its detriment.
  - micromacrofoot 5y ago
    Yeah Tile even has the same network tracking effects that extend widely beyond bluetooth range. They've done this for a decade at this point, IIRC.
    - smilespray 5y ago
      Too bad Tile's network tracking is useless in most areas since an app install is required to be part of the network.
      - micromacrofoot 5y ago
        If you live in a moderately sized city it's good enough to track someone to their house. I did it with a backpack thief 5 years ago.
- Cthulhu_ 5y ago
  I mean for personal use, airtags seem all right. But it's the ones that don't come with a warning that they're around that worry me. I mean if you're paranoid, I'm sure there's detectors that can find bluetooth signals and whichever other technologies they use (I'm fairly sure GPS is passive, that is, they only need to receive satellite signals, not send anything).
  - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
    Download the nRFConnect app and you'll probably be amazed at the number of BLE devices that are around you all the time. Anecdote: I used to work for a company that did a lot of wireless wearable stuff and early on in COVID lockdown I had a Linux tool: bluetoothctl, running while I was testing some code down in the basement of my house. The first indication I had that my wife was home was the appearance of a Fitbit device in the scan, followed by a couple of unknown phones as she and a friend walked up to the house. Not unexpected, but it was that sudden appearance of devices (I live far outside the city) that really drove home how much data we're throwing off all the time without thinking about it.
    - shantara 5y ago
      Wow, I was indeed amazed. I live in an apartment building, and I could immediately see more than a hundred devices! The list has everything: from headphones and smart watches to light bulbs and TVs.
      - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
        Now don't be tempted to send random data to those light bulbs :-)
major505 5y ago
The fact that she was to tired to take a baby to the hospital, but not to follow husband every step is what concerns me.
- ameminator 5y ago
  I do try to be charitable, but it almost seemed like a sick game to me. "Here, let me convince my husband that he needs to go take the baby to the hospital. Now, let's stalk him to see if he actually did it!" Anyways, this turned me off. It could have been "forgiven" (if this word even applies) had it contributed something meaningful. Sadly, it didn't, so it just comes off as neurotic stalking.
  - bentcorner 5y ago
    I don't have that take at all. The husband knew he was being tracked, she got permission from him prior to putting any tracking devices on him. > It could have been "forgiven" (if this word even applies) had it contributed something meaningful Just because you are aware of the dangers of tracking and how these devices work it doesn't mean others are equally aware.
    - ameminator 5y ago
      This is actually one of the side issues I had with the piece. The way it's written, you would think that she asked explicit permission to track him to the hospital. However, what seems to have happened in reality, is that they had previously played a harmless game of "find the Airtags". Then, some time later, possibly a large period, she uses those Airtags to track the husband. It's hard to say in either direction if the husband knew and expected to be tracked to the hospital. I think that was a deliberate choice - but it still comes off deceptive, if this is just happenstance. If any of this had contributed meaningfully to the main points, I would tolerate it a lot more - that's my biggest contention. The fact that the author isnt a perfect person is just a side gripe that I have with plenty other articles.
      - 5y ago
nooyurrsdey 5y ago
Not everything has to offer new info. Sometimes things bear repeating, it's how we add emphasis and continue the conversation. Coming out with "Apple is doing a poor job" just once isn't going to move the needle. People have to hear it over and over in a relatable way.
- ameminator 5y ago
  Fair point - but in that case, I found the author's account unrelatable, so much as to approach uncredible. Maybe it hits different for other people, but I don't appreciate being given a conclusion without any good discussion
  - fleetwoodsnack 5y ago
    Your critique is bit shallow. That the article does not present any new information to any one reader (you) specifically, or that any one reader (you) cannot relate personally is to be expected and not remarkable given the size of this publication’s audience and the novelty of the phenomenon the article discusses. I imagine, however, that there are readers for whom this information is novel, and for whom the first-person journalistic style is insightful. In this case, the value here is obvious.
    - ameminator 5y ago
      Yes, I will present my viewpoint. I didn't find this article relatable. I didn't find new information from this article. I think this article objectively is hard to relate to and has little new information.I will share my viewpoint in a comments section - feel free to disagree. If you think it's shallow, it's probably because the original piece didn't have much meat to begin with.
      - fleetwoodsnack 5y ago
        >Yes, I will present my viewpoint You can, or, alternatively, you can simply acknowledge you’re not the intended audience for the article, and that you may have over-stepped rhetorically in declaring a complete absence of value with respect to insight or novelty in the article; which is there, and obviously so.
BeefWellington 5y ago
> I ask - what new insight did this article offer on Airtags? I don't think anyone can conclude either way on the effectiveness of Apple's "safety measures" when it comes to Airtags, from this small anecdote. While I understand where you're coming from, I think there's value in adding to the chorus when it comes to putting pressure on a company to rethink a strategy. Certainly, while articles such as this may not be news to you or I, they are likely to be news to a number of people on HN, their friends & family, etc. > The author also seems to be somewhat deceptive - "I sound like a terrible wife, but it's for journalism!" No, it seems like the author played a prank on her husband a while back and used that to neuroticaly follow him, then tried to excuse that behavior by writing this fluff piece. This point misses the mark IMO. The issue with AirTags at their core is that they permit people who are deceptive and shady to do bad things much easier than they could before. I think the cat's out of the bag now on this type of tech though. Tile's been around for a while, AirTags are now everywhere, the goal now should be developing detection systems (which shouldn't be too hard).
- xoa 5y ago
  >The issue with AirTags at their core is that they permit people who are deceptive and shady to do bad things much easier than they could before. But that's just not true. Seriously, right now, go to Amazon and type in "GPS Tracker" and look at the results: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=gps+tracker https://www.amazon.com/s?k=gps+tracker Literally $30 gets you a 1oz cellular magnetized tracker you put a SIM into for real time tracking anywhere with cell coverage with voice monitoring included! Literally for tracking and they proudly advertise it. No warnings or nags about "a device is following you", no noises. Comes with Prime shipping, get it as soon as Sunday February 13! Apple being Apple may well have brought more publicity to the issue but no, AirTags do not do what you say they do. If anything there are reasonable arguments that Apple has been too careful to the extent of making them pretty irritating in family/friends usage where everyone gets nagged for normal shared item activity and cannot use them in a shared way (despite being able to do so for devices!).
  - tut-urut-utut 5y ago
    I am with you on this, there were and are a lot of tracking alternatives. The issue is more that now, since Apple released AirTags, everyone just got aware of it. While previously one had to search for a solution how to track someone, now we have streamlined mainstream product with great usability for the purpose. Which is still a net negative for a society, and it's Apple's fault for popularizing such behaviour.
BiteCode_dev 5y ago
> should Apple be doing these measures at all? Apple no, but law makers should require a licence to use those. This is not a tech that anybody should be able to use on a whim. Too much potential for abuses. Not to mention the more there are, the bigger the cake for a nation that want to get control of the biggest offline spying network of all time. Somebody is going to crack that thing sooner or later. There will be an NSO for airtags.
- nomel 5y ago
  What until you hear about the tracking device that everyone has in their pockets, used by cellular companies, ad companies, and the government!
  - BiteCode_dev 5y ago
    Yes, they are a problem too. But, you know they are here. They can be turned off. They require an internet connection. They are not meant for tracking, and intent is important. They provide other features than tracking. They are expensive, and battery don't last. People won't use them to track their ex wife for months. It's like comparing a gun and a knife. Sure, you can kill with a knife, but it's harder, and initially the knife is made for cutting carrots.
dylan604 5y ago
>what new insight did this article author found a trending topic, and is making the mostest
kelnos 5y ago
> No, it seems like the author played a prank on her husband a while back and used that to neuroticaly follow him, then tried to excuse that behavior by writing this fluff piece. She planted the tracking devices on him with his permission, after discussing with him that she wanted to write a piece on the experience. This information is right in the article.
bhelkey 5y ago
I found these three portions intersting: >[LandAirSea] which sells about 15,000 devices per month... tells these callers they should go to the police, because they will need a subpoena to determine who owns the device they discovered. >My husband, of course, had agreed to this in principle, but didn’t realize just how many devices I had planted on him. Of the seven trackers, he found only two..It is impossible to find a device that makes no noise and gives no warning >For all the bad press the AirTags have gotten...at least I was consistently getting notifications they were following me...The privacy dangers of the other trackers were way worse
nostromo 5y ago
Yes, this isn’t good journalism. “I drove over my husband with an F150 for journalism. Ford clearly needs to do more.”
- lemmsjid 5y ago
  The average NYT Reader knows what an F150 would do if driven over a husband. Presumably, the average NYT Reader does not know about the capabilities of tracking devices or the ramifications of stashing them on a husband's person. I personally kind of knew about Airtags and knew nothing about Tiles until a fairly recent Hacker News post, and it was news to me how Airtags used surrounding devices for locational info. Furthermore, there's a place for journalism that grounds a hypothetical experience in descriptive prose / photography in order to transform abstract facts to something closer to lived experience. In that aforementioned HN post I learned about using those devices for stalking as a hypothetical, but this article's actual photographs did make me uncomfortable and drove home the ramifications.
reaperducer 5y ago
I ask - what new insight did this article offer on Airtags? Ask the author: https://mobile.twitter.com/kashhill https://mobile.twitter.com/kashhill Let us know what she says. The author also seems to be somewhat deceptive Let us know what she has to say about that, too.
- ameminator 5y ago
  I don't have twitter and I don't think twitter is a good platform for discussion.
  - reaperducer 5y ago
    No problem! There's a link on her NY Times biography page so you can e-mail her: https://www.nytimes.com/by/kashmir-hill https://www.nytimes.com/by/kashmir-hill Or are you going to make up another excuse to hide behind the anonymity of HN so you can throw around a bunch of insulting questions in public without bothering to speak directly to the person you're criticizing?

bberenberg 5y ago

I found the key quote to be "My husband, of course, had agreed to this in principle, but didn’t realize just how many devices I had planted on him. Of the seven trackers, he found only two: a Tile he felt in the breast pocket of his coat and an AirTag in his backpack when he was looking for something else. “It is impossible to find a device that makes no noise and gives no warning,” he said, when I showed him the ones he missed." which I read as "Apple needs to improve, but still drastically better than everything else out there" I am not in the market for AirTags, but if you are completely scatterbrained and this provides you a helpful way to manage your stuff, AirTags seem to be least bad way of doing this.

ameminator 5y ago
I actually tend to agree somewhat with your arguments. However, from the article, I don't think you can reach those conclusions like: "Apple needs to improve, but still drastically better than everything else out there" Where does the article talk about this class of device? Nowhere is a competing product mentioned or compared against. Even a Bluetooth keyfob, used to track keys by emitting a sound (and widely available) could have been used there. I like and agree with what you said, I just don't think the article makes those points, to its detriment.
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  Yeah Tile even has the same network tracking effects that extend widely beyond bluetooth range. They've done this for a decade at this point, IIRC.
  - smilespray 5y ago
    Too bad Tile's network tracking is useless in most areas since an app install is required to be part of the network.
    - micromacrofoot 5y ago
      If you live in a moderately sized city it's good enough to track someone to their house. I did it with a backpack thief 5 years ago.
Cthulhu_ 5y ago
I mean for personal use, airtags seem all right. But it's the ones that don't come with a warning that they're around that worry me. I mean if you're paranoid, I'm sure there's detectors that can find bluetooth signals and whichever other technologies they use (I'm fairly sure GPS is passive, that is, they only need to receive satellite signals, not send anything).
- HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
  Download the nRFConnect app and you'll probably be amazed at the number of BLE devices that are around you all the time. Anecdote: I used to work for a company that did a lot of wireless wearable stuff and early on in COVID lockdown I had a Linux tool: bluetoothctl, running while I was testing some code down in the basement of my house. The first indication I had that my wife was home was the appearance of a Fitbit device in the scan, followed by a couple of unknown phones as she and a friend walked up to the house. Not unexpected, but it was that sudden appearance of devices (I live far outside the city) that really drove home how much data we're throwing off all the time without thinking about it.
  - shantara 5y ago
    Wow, I was indeed amazed. I live in an apartment building, and I could immediately see more than a hundred devices! The list has everything: from headphones and smart watches to light bulbs and TVs.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 5y ago
      Now don't be tempted to send random data to those light bulbs :-)

major505 5y ago

The fact that she was to tired to take a baby to the hospital, but not to follow husband every step is what concerns me.

ameminator 5y ago
I do try to be charitable, but it almost seemed like a sick game to me. "Here, let me convince my husband that he needs to go take the baby to the hospital. Now, let's stalk him to see if he actually did it!" Anyways, this turned me off. It could have been "forgiven" (if this word even applies) had it contributed something meaningful. Sadly, it didn't, so it just comes off as neurotic stalking.
- bentcorner 5y ago
  I don't have that take at all. The husband knew he was being tracked, she got permission from him prior to putting any tracking devices on him. > It could have been "forgiven" (if this word even applies) had it contributed something meaningful Just because you are aware of the dangers of tracking and how these devices work it doesn't mean others are equally aware.
  - ameminator 5y ago
    This is actually one of the side issues I had with the piece. The way it's written, you would think that she asked explicit permission to track him to the hospital. However, what seems to have happened in reality, is that they had previously played a harmless game of "find the Airtags". Then, some time later, possibly a large period, she uses those Airtags to track the husband. It's hard to say in either direction if the husband knew and expected to be tracked to the hospital. I think that was a deliberate choice - but it still comes off deceptive, if this is just happenstance. If any of this had contributed meaningfully to the main points, I would tolerate it a lot more - that's my biggest contention. The fact that the author isnt a perfect person is just a side gripe that I have with plenty other articles.
    - 5y ago

nooyurrsdey 5y ago

Not everything has to offer new info. Sometimes things bear repeating, it's how we add emphasis and continue the conversation. Coming out with "Apple is doing a poor job" just once isn't going to move the needle. People have to hear it over and over in a relatable way.

ameminator 5y ago
Fair point - but in that case, I found the author's account unrelatable, so much as to approach uncredible. Maybe it hits different for other people, but I don't appreciate being given a conclusion without any good discussion
- fleetwoodsnack 5y ago
  Your critique is bit shallow. That the article does not present any new information to any one reader (you) specifically, or that any one reader (you) cannot relate personally is to be expected and not remarkable given the size of this publication’s audience and the novelty of the phenomenon the article discusses. I imagine, however, that there are readers for whom this information is novel, and for whom the first-person journalistic style is insightful. In this case, the value here is obvious.
  - ameminator 5y ago
    Yes, I will present my viewpoint. I didn't find this article relatable. I didn't find new information from this article. I think this article objectively is hard to relate to and has little new information.I will share my viewpoint in a comments section - feel free to disagree. If you think it's shallow, it's probably because the original piece didn't have much meat to begin with.
    - fleetwoodsnack 5y ago
      >Yes, I will present my viewpoint You can, or, alternatively, you can simply acknowledge you’re not the intended audience for the article, and that you may have over-stepped rhetorically in declaring a complete absence of value with respect to insight or novelty in the article; which is there, and obviously so.

BeefWellington 5y ago

> I ask - what new insight did this article offer on Airtags? I don't think anyone can conclude either way on the effectiveness of Apple's "safety measures" when it comes to Airtags, from this small anecdote. While I understand where you're coming from, I think there's value in adding to the chorus when it comes to putting pressure on a company to rethink a strategy. Certainly, while articles such as this may not be news to you or I, they are likely to be news to a number of people on HN, their friends & family, etc. > The author also seems to be somewhat deceptive - "I sound like a terrible wife, but it's for journalism!" No, it seems like the author played a prank on her husband a while back and used that to neuroticaly follow him, then tried to excuse that behavior by writing this fluff piece. This point misses the mark IMO. The issue with AirTags at their core is that they permit people who are deceptive and shady to do bad things much easier than they could before. I think the cat's out of the bag now on this type of tech though. Tile's been around for a while, AirTags are now everywhere, the goal now should be developing detection systems (which shouldn't be too hard).

xoa 5y ago
>The issue with AirTags at their core is that they permit people who are deceptive and shady to do bad things much easier than they could before. But that's just not true. Seriously, right now, go to Amazon and type in "GPS Tracker" and look at the results: https://www.amazon.com/s?k=gps+tracker https://www.amazon.com/s?k=gps+tracker Literally $30 gets you a 1oz cellular magnetized tracker you put a SIM into for real time tracking anywhere with cell coverage with voice monitoring included! Literally for tracking and they proudly advertise it. No warnings or nags about "a device is following you", no noises. Comes with Prime shipping, get it as soon as Sunday February 13! Apple being Apple may well have brought more publicity to the issue but no, AirTags do not do what you say they do. If anything there are reasonable arguments that Apple has been too careful to the extent of making them pretty irritating in family/friends usage where everyone gets nagged for normal shared item activity and cannot use them in a shared way (despite being able to do so for devices!).
- tut-urut-utut 5y ago
  I am with you on this, there were and are a lot of tracking alternatives. The issue is more that now, since Apple released AirTags, everyone just got aware of it. While previously one had to search for a solution how to track someone, now we have streamlined mainstream product with great usability for the purpose. Which is still a net negative for a society, and it's Apple's fault for popularizing such behaviour.

BiteCode_dev 5y ago

> should Apple be doing these measures at all? Apple no, but law makers should require a licence to use those. This is not a tech that anybody should be able to use on a whim. Too much potential for abuses. Not to mention the more there are, the bigger the cake for a nation that want to get control of the biggest offline spying network of all time. Somebody is going to crack that thing sooner or later. There will be an NSO for airtags.

nomel 5y ago
What until you hear about the tracking device that everyone has in their pockets, used by cellular companies, ad companies, and the government!
- BiteCode_dev 5y ago
  Yes, they are a problem too. But, you know they are here. They can be turned off. They require an internet connection. They are not meant for tracking, and intent is important. They provide other features than tracking. They are expensive, and battery don't last. People won't use them to track their ex wife for months. It's like comparing a gun and a knife. Sure, you can kill with a knife, but it's harder, and initially the knife is made for cutting carrots.

dylan604 5y ago

>what new insight did this article author found a trending topic, and is making the mostest

kelnos 5y ago

> No, it seems like the author played a prank on her husband a while back and used that to neuroticaly follow him, then tried to excuse that behavior by writing this fluff piece. She planted the tracking devices on him with his permission, after discussing with him that she wanted to write a piece on the experience. This information is right in the article.

bhelkey 5y ago

I found these three portions intersting: >[LandAirSea] which sells about 15,000 devices per month... tells these callers they should go to the police, because they will need a subpoena to determine who owns the device they discovered. >My husband, of course, had agreed to this in principle, but didn’t realize just how many devices I had planted on him. Of the seven trackers, he found only two..It is impossible to find a device that makes no noise and gives no warning >For all the bad press the AirTags have gotten...at least I was consistently getting notifications they were following me...The privacy dangers of the other trackers were way worse

nostromo 5y ago

Yes, this isn’t good journalism. “I drove over my husband with an F150 for journalism. Ford clearly needs to do more.”

lemmsjid 5y ago
The average NYT Reader knows what an F150 would do if driven over a husband. Presumably, the average NYT Reader does not know about the capabilities of tracking devices or the ramifications of stashing them on a husband's person. I personally kind of knew about Airtags and knew nothing about Tiles until a fairly recent Hacker News post, and it was news to me how Airtags used surrounding devices for locational info. Furthermore, there's a place for journalism that grounds a hypothetical experience in descriptive prose / photography in order to transform abstract facts to something closer to lived experience. In that aforementioned HN post I learned about using those devices for stalking as a hypothetical, but this article's actual photographs did make me uncomfortable and drove home the ramifications.

reaperducer 5y ago

I ask - what new insight did this article offer on Airtags? Ask the author: https://mobile.twitter.com/kashhill https://mobile.twitter.com/kashhill Let us know what she says. The author also seems to be somewhat deceptive Let us know what she has to say about that, too.

ameminator 5y ago
I don't have twitter and I don't think twitter is a good platform for discussion.
- reaperducer 5y ago
  No problem! There's a link on her NY Times biography page so you can e-mail her: https://www.nytimes.com/by/kashmir-hill https://www.nytimes.com/by/kashmir-hill Or are you going to make up another excuse to hide behind the anonymity of HN so you can throw around a bunch of insulting questions in public without bothering to speak directly to the person you're criticizing?