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Germany has been burning more and more coal since shutting down their nuclear plants in favour of renewables What a great green strategy that was

phicoh 5y ago
That's wrong. Germany was significantly reduced the amount of electricity from coal over the last decades. Renewables have picked up both the reduction in coal and the reduction in nuclear power.
- shawabawa3 5y ago
  Sorry I misremembered the statistic. They've been reducing coal usage slightly over the last 20 years, but burn 50% more natural gas. overall energy generation from fossil fuels is up over the last 20 years (since their first nuclear plant was shut down)
  - phicoh 5y ago
    According to https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&year=-1&stacking=stacked_absolute&interval=year&legendItems=0011111111011110 https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE... total amount of fossil fuel use for electricity went down.
    - shawabawa3 5y ago
      I was looking at capacity not generation So capacity of fossil fuels went up, but I suppose natural gas shuts down while renewable generation is high so it doesn't use its capacity all the time - my bad
      - phicoh 5y ago
        Yes, the easiest way to get a stable grid with wind and solar is to have natural gas capacity equal to what you need from wind and solar. Gas is not used when there is wind or solar, and is very easy and quick to turn on when needed. In the future when more green gasses become available, bio methane, hydrogen or syn methane, those gas plants can be filled with those as well.
Archelaos 5y ago
This is not true. The agreement between the federal government and the energy supply companies to phase out nuclear energy dates back to 14 June 2000. The first nuclear power plant was shut down permanently in Nov. 2003. At this time the power generation from coal (both hard coal and lignite) was around 300 TWh/year. It almost halfed to 162.6 TWh in 2021. The all time low was in 2020, though, due to the pandemic. For details of Germany's energy production and consumption since 1990 see: https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-c...
- yreg 5y ago
  You are right to correct the GP. Imagine the lives that could be saved if they replaced the coal with renewables first and phased out nuclear second.
- shawabawa3 5y ago
  sorry you're correct i was inaccurate. Coal has only increased in 2021, but fossil fuels have increased since 2002 (from 69.9GW to 78.9GW), i misremembered that statistic as coal instead of fossil fuels
  - Archelaos 5y ago
    The consumption of natural gas itself has indeed increased. But the sum of natural gas + coal has still decreased a lot. From aprox. 350 TWh per year in the early 2000s to 251,6 TWh in 2021. The partial replacement of coal by natural gas is at least in part caused by the transition to renewable energies. Until the transition is complete, natural gas is the best fossil fuel option to even out fluctuations in the production of renewable energy, because gas power plants can be switched on and off very quickly at peak times (in strong contrast btw to nuclear power plants) and they can be built relatively decentralized, each with a small volume. Therefore it is not likely that we will see a major drop in natural gas consumption in Germany in the next two decades.
    - MagnumOpus 5y ago

phicoh 5y ago

That's wrong. Germany was significantly reduced the amount of electricity from coal over the last decades. Renewables have picked up both the reduction in coal and the reduction in nuclear power.

shawabawa3 5y ago
Sorry I misremembered the statistic. They've been reducing coal usage slightly over the last 20 years, but burn 50% more natural gas. overall energy generation from fossil fuels is up over the last 20 years (since their first nuclear plant was shut down)
- phicoh 5y ago
  According to https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE&year=-1&stacking=stacked_absolute&interval=year&legendItems=0011111111011110 https://energy-charts.info/charts/energy/chart.htm?l=en&c=DE... total amount of fossil fuel use for electricity went down.
  - shawabawa3 5y ago
    I was looking at capacity not generation So capacity of fossil fuels went up, but I suppose natural gas shuts down while renewable generation is high so it doesn't use its capacity all the time - my bad
    - phicoh 5y ago
      Yes, the easiest way to get a stable grid with wind and solar is to have natural gas capacity equal to what you need from wind and solar. Gas is not used when there is wind or solar, and is very easy and quick to turn on when needed. In the future when more green gasses become available, bio methane, hydrogen or syn methane, those gas plants can be filled with those as well.

Archelaos 5y ago

This is not true. The agreement between the federal government and the energy supply companies to phase out nuclear energy dates back to 14 June 2000. The first nuclear power plant was shut down permanently in Nov. 2003. At this time the power generation from coal (both hard coal and lignite) was around 300 TWh/year. It almost halfed to 162.6 TWh in 2021. The all time low was in 2020, though, due to the pandemic. For details of Germany's energy production and consumption since 1990 see: https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-c...

yreg 5y ago
You are right to correct the GP. Imagine the lives that could be saved if they replaced the coal with renewables first and phased out nuclear second.
shawabawa3 5y ago
sorry you're correct i was inaccurate. Coal has only increased in 2021, but fossil fuels have increased since 2002 (from 69.9GW to 78.9GW), i misremembered that statistic as coal instead of fossil fuels
- Archelaos 5y ago
  The consumption of natural gas itself has indeed increased. But the sum of natural gas + coal has still decreased a lot. From aprox. 350 TWh per year in the early 2000s to 251,6 TWh in 2021. The partial replacement of coal by natural gas is at least in part caused by the transition to renewable energies. Until the transition is complete, natural gas is the best fossil fuel option to even out fluctuations in the production of renewable energy, because gas power plants can be switched on and off very quickly at peak times (in strong contrast btw to nuclear power plants) and they can be built relatively decentralized, each with a small volume. Therefore it is not likely that we will see a major drop in natural gas consumption in Germany in the next two decades.
  - MagnumOpus 5y ago