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If this passes wouldn't this accelerate the decentralized encrypted communication movement? How can government stop that?

by lyime 5y ago

matheusmoreira 5y ago
They can't stop the technology itself but they can throw you in jail for the simple act of using it. How dare you resist their surveillance, right?
dane-pgp 5y ago
Imagine if the government forced app stores, anti-virus companies, and OS providers to prevent the installation of "dangerous" applications. How many people are going to jailbreak their phone or run Linux on their laptop in order to install an E2EE chat app?
- tempestn 5y ago
  And even those who do won't have very many people to chat with.
Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago
For example, by forcing Apple to remove the apps from the Appstore. (No sideloading is so great, Apple fanboys here say, no big deal, just do your research and buy another device. )
- alwillis 5y ago
  For example, by forcing Apple to remove the apps from the Appstore. Apple would fight this all the way to the Supreme Court. This is IMHO a clear violation of the 1st amendment. With such a conservative Supreme Court, I doubt they would look favorably at restricting speech of a company. Besides, Apple’s App Store is available in many countries around the world; an American iPhone user could get restricted apps from its App Stores in other countries.
  - Gareth321 5y ago
    >Apple would fight this all the way to the Supreme Court. This is IMHO a clear violation of the 1st amendment. I'm not so sure anymore. Apple of yore is dead. They recently announced a plan to scan local files on iPhones against a government created list of hashes. Only after immense backlash did they agree to "delay" the implementation. This had no profit motive for Apple. As a company, the move served to seriously undermine decades worth of security good will. One can only surmise that they did so in preparation for upcoming legislation like this to ensure their compliance, and continued access to said markets. Apple doesn't care about fighting moral wars. They only care about market access and continued profits. If that means removing apps and scanning phones, I think they'll do it without much fuss.
    - unicornfinder 5y ago
      To play devil's advocate, I actually suspect the reason Apple were planning to implement this was because they were intending to start using E2E encryption on iCloud photos, but to keep various governments off their back figured they could placate them by implementing this scanning.
      - Gareth321 5y ago
        If so, what a monumental PR disaster to not lead with that instead.
    - alwillis 5y ago
      They recently announced a plan to scan local files on iPhones against a government created list of hashes. This is incorrect. Only images uploaded to iCloud would be checked if they matched against multiple CSAM databases. From the beginning, disabling iCloud Photos disabled this feature. They painstakingly described the algorithms and encryption behind the plan. I will remind you that Apple could had given in to the FBI’s request to create a back door to the San Bernardino shooter’s iPhone a few years ago and Apple very publicly told them to pound sand. Ironically Apple is now suing the company the FBI used to crack that iPhone: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/11/apple-sues-nso-group-to-curb-the-abuse-of-state-sponsored-spyware/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/11/apple-sues-nso-group-...
- raxxorrax 5y ago
  > No sideloading is so great Because it improves security... I hate that the loudest voices in our industry so often fail to look beyond the horizon. This is a very predictable weak point. And mobile security is so great. Not that user data is often exfiltrated by a lot of these vetted apps at all...
nomendos 5y ago
Government can not stop criminals to use end-to-end encryption. With this bill only regular internet users loose privacy! This is not how it is represented to Senators and instead they are offered a lie while they do not understand, so we need to act. Crooked forces are behind this!

If this passes wouldn't this accelerate the decentralized encrypted communication movement? How can government stop that?

by lyime 5y ago

If this passes wouldn't this accelerate the decentralized encrypted communication movement? How can government stop that?

matheusmoreira 5y ago

They can't stop the technology itself but they can throw you in jail for the simple act of using it. How dare you resist their surveillance, right?

dane-pgp 5y ago

Imagine if the government forced app stores, anti-virus companies, and OS providers to prevent the installation of "dangerous" applications. How many people are going to jailbreak their phone or run Linux on their laptop in order to install an E2EE chat app?

tempestn 5y ago
And even those who do won't have very many people to chat with.

Andrew_nenakhov 5y ago

For example, by forcing Apple to remove the apps from the Appstore. (No sideloading is so great, Apple fanboys here say, no big deal, just do your research and buy another device. )

alwillis 5y ago
For example, by forcing Apple to remove the apps from the Appstore. Apple would fight this all the way to the Supreme Court. This is IMHO a clear violation of the 1st amendment. With such a conservative Supreme Court, I doubt they would look favorably at restricting speech of a company. Besides, Apple’s App Store is available in many countries around the world; an American iPhone user could get restricted apps from its App Stores in other countries.
- Gareth321 5y ago
  >Apple would fight this all the way to the Supreme Court. This is IMHO a clear violation of the 1st amendment. I'm not so sure anymore. Apple of yore is dead. They recently announced a plan to scan local files on iPhones against a government created list of hashes. Only after immense backlash did they agree to "delay" the implementation. This had no profit motive for Apple. As a company, the move served to seriously undermine decades worth of security good will. One can only surmise that they did so in preparation for upcoming legislation like this to ensure their compliance, and continued access to said markets. Apple doesn't care about fighting moral wars. They only care about market access and continued profits. If that means removing apps and scanning phones, I think they'll do it without much fuss.
  - unicornfinder 5y ago
    To play devil's advocate, I actually suspect the reason Apple were planning to implement this was because they were intending to start using E2E encryption on iCloud photos, but to keep various governments off their back figured they could placate them by implementing this scanning.
    - Gareth321 5y ago
      If so, what a monumental PR disaster to not lead with that instead.
  - alwillis 5y ago
    They recently announced a plan to scan local files on iPhones against a government created list of hashes. This is incorrect. Only images uploaded to iCloud would be checked if they matched against multiple CSAM databases. From the beginning, disabling iCloud Photos disabled this feature. They painstakingly described the algorithms and encryption behind the plan. I will remind you that Apple could had given in to the FBI’s request to create a back door to the San Bernardino shooter’s iPhone a few years ago and Apple very publicly told them to pound sand. Ironically Apple is now suing the company the FBI used to crack that iPhone: https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/11/apple-sues-nso-group-to-curb-the-abuse-of-state-sponsored-spyware/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2021/11/apple-sues-nso-group-...
raxxorrax 5y ago
> No sideloading is so great Because it improves security... I hate that the loudest voices in our industry so often fail to look beyond the horizon. This is a very predictable weak point. And mobile security is so great. Not that user data is often exfiltrated by a lot of these vetted apps at all...

nomendos 5y ago

Government can not stop criminals to use end-to-end encryption. With this bill only regular internet users loose privacy! This is not how it is represented to Senators and instead they are offered a lie while they do not understand, so we need to act. Crooked forces are behind this!