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Yeah, he's always like this. See his Neuralink presentations. He got to where he is through a combination of hard work and luck (a large part of which was the

Yeah, he's always like this. See his Neuralink presentations. He got to where he is through a combination of hard work and luck (a large part of which was the birth lottery), like everyone. Imagine if Woz was intensely interested in building Apple, and had Jobs' judgement. As far as I know, he's planning on a time frame of 200 years to build a sustainable city. He's also intending on building thousands of Starships, by making them as rugged and as cheap as possible without sacrificing safety.

pageandrew 5y ago
> birth lottery There are plenty of people born into more favorable conditions than Elon Musk, who haven’t had 1/10,000th of the success that he has had.
- anonporridge 5y ago
  Most people who achieve massive success are born into privilege. Being able to spend your time studying and getting exposed to cutting edge developments rather than struggling to just survive is a massive advantage. It's largely a necessary, but not sufficient condition for major success. People that rise from nothing to achieve massive success are the exception that prove the rule.
  - pageandrew 5y ago
    Yes, if someone is struggling to survive, that will limit their ability to become a world-changing entrepreneur. That said, the average westerner is not struggling to survive, and the average westerner does not end up founding 3 world changing companies and amassing a wealth of $200 billion. Not even the average birthright 1%er achieves that.
    - flyt 5y ago
      Oh, but they are. The average westerner (in the US, at least) is a $400 unexpected bill away from bankruptcy. Also, Musk was not a founder of Tesla.
      - pverghese 5y ago
        Don't buy an iPhone you'll be 1000 less away from bankruptcy
      - fastball 5y ago
        > Also, Musk was not a founder of Tesla. Lawsuit says otherwise.
        jjulius 5y ago
        The settlement just said that they could call themselves founders. Equally, a settlement could've also been reached that said that everyone involved could call themselves "buttholes". What doesn't change regardless of that settlement is the fact that Musk didn't actually found (or "start" if folk wanna get all nitpicky bEcAuSe SeTtLeMeNt SaYs So) the company, invested a year after it was founded, and didn't become CEO for another four years.
        fastball 5y ago
        What is a founder? If I incorporate a company and then bring my friend onboard a day later, is he a founder? Why or why not?
        jjulius 5y ago
        First, there's a difference between bringing someone onboard the day after incorporation and the timeline I mentioned. Second, what are you bringing your friend onboard for? Were you collaborating on this idea with them before you incorporated? Or did you bring them on because you realized you needed more money (eg, Musk)? Early investor is what he was, along with chairman, then CEO, but it's disingenuous to call him a founder. The settlement you referenced is really just dick swinging.
        virgilp 5y ago
        The legal result of the settlement is that Musk can call himself a (co)founder, and so can Straubel & Wright. Even Eberhard agreed to that. You may personally feel he's not entitled to the title, but that's just it, a personal feeling. He's literally legally entitled to have this title. Why contradict people on the internet, and say "actually, Musk is not a founder of Tesla"? If anything, it is (right now) disingenuous to claim he is not a founder, given that maybe not all people know the full history and some may believe that he didn't (legally) earn the title.
    - fartcannon 5y ago
      Its not even that complex. If there was an identical Elon that came one year after Elon, he wouldn't be able to have what Elon has. It's all luck of the draw all the way down.
      - varjag 5y ago
        How about why no idential Elon came the year before Elon? It's not like the idea of powered landing was unheard of, and tech ingredients were there for arguably decades.
      - ralfd 5y ago
        > Its not even that complex. If there was an identical Elon that came one year after Elon, he wouldn't be able to have what Elon has. The universe actually did run that experiment: Kimbal Musk is the younger brother of Elon. He too was born at the right time, the explosion of the word wide web, and made very favorable investments and is presumably filthy rich. But he doesn't have the drive to build rockets. https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2021/11/11/the-other-musk-getting-rich-off-tesla-elons-youngest-brother/?sh=232f3b1b7758 https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2021/11/11/the-ot... It is similar to Jeff Bezos brother Mark. Mark Bezos lead by every conventional measure a successful life: high managing career in advertising and at a charity non-profit, wife and 4 kids. But without his brother he wouldn't have a Wiki entry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Bezos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Bezos
        sillysaurusx 5y ago
        People seem to be confusing birth lottery with determination. Working hard is table stakes. But you seem to imply that anyone who isn’t poor can do it, if only they work hard enough. I think this mindset is mistaken.
    - CharlesW 5y ago
      > That said, the average westerner is not struggling to survive… This is an extremely privileged and out-of-touch POV.
      - signatoremo 5y ago
        Care to prove your POV? The average people of country like China isn’t struggling to survive. The average westerner — Americans, Europeans, Japanese, is definitely not either.
  - aradox66 5y ago
    Well put. I've never seen someone use the phrase "exception that proves the rule" non-ironically. Why is it more than just a class of exceptions? How does it prove anything?
    - anonporridge 5y ago
      I use that phrase as, we usually elevate exceptional things because they are exceptions. That elevation itself implies that it's something special that goes against the norms (or against the rule). So, our awareness of a small number of exceptions proves the fact that there is an underlying rule that applies to the majority of non exceptional instances.
  - ameister14 5y ago
    That's a pretty small group of people to start with. Apparently there have been only nine people between 1750 and 1950 worth over $100 billion dollars. (Wikipedia, so who knows) Of them, 6 were not born into privilege: Cornelius Vanderbilt, Stephen Girard, John D. Rockefeller, Carnegie, John Jakob Astor, and Henry Ford. Including the modern era adds another 9, only 2 of which were not born into privilege - Larry Ellison and Jeff Bezos. You could argue definition of privilege and add Sergey Brin in there maybe. So depending on your definition of privilege and 'massive success,' you might be only just correct, with 10/18 people worth over $100 billion in the last 250 years or so coming from privilege.
- Barrin92 5y ago
  Most successful tech entrepreneurs seem to come from more or less his demographics, which is a upper middle/professional class upbringing. I don't think coming from extreme old money generally lends itself to entrepreneurship, there's a goldilocks zone that involves some degree of having to work for a living, having migrated or something along those lines.
nickpp 5y ago
> birth lottery Elon Musk was born in South Africa so compared to anyone born in the USA or EU he has lost the birth lottery, I guess.
- TwoFerMaggie 5y ago
  I would argue that it doesn't just depend on which country. Being born into a privileged class in a less developed country is often times better than an average family in, let's say, US. The inequality is much more severe meaning that you might actually have access to more resource and power.
  - nickpp 5y ago
    Sure, the type of family one grows up in has a tremendous impact on one’s outcome in life, but Elon deliberately moved to the USA to have access to opportunities Americans have access to. Location matters too.

pageandrew 5y ago

> birth lottery There are plenty of people born into more favorable conditions than Elon Musk, who haven’t had 1/10,000th of the success that he has had.

anonporridge 5y ago
Most people who achieve massive success are born into privilege. Being able to spend your time studying and getting exposed to cutting edge developments rather than struggling to just survive is a massive advantage. It's largely a necessary, but not sufficient condition for major success. People that rise from nothing to achieve massive success are the exception that prove the rule.
- pageandrew 5y ago
  Yes, if someone is struggling to survive, that will limit their ability to become a world-changing entrepreneur. That said, the average westerner is not struggling to survive, and the average westerner does not end up founding 3 world changing companies and amassing a wealth of $200 billion. Not even the average birthright 1%er achieves that.
  - flyt 5y ago
    Oh, but they are. The average westerner (in the US, at least) is a $400 unexpected bill away from bankruptcy. Also, Musk was not a founder of Tesla.
    - pverghese 5y ago
      Don't buy an iPhone you'll be 1000 less away from bankruptcy
    - fastball 5y ago
      > Also, Musk was not a founder of Tesla. Lawsuit says otherwise.
      - jjulius 5y ago
        The settlement just said that they could call themselves founders. Equally, a settlement could've also been reached that said that everyone involved could call themselves "buttholes". What doesn't change regardless of that settlement is the fact that Musk didn't actually found (or "start" if folk wanna get all nitpicky bEcAuSe SeTtLeMeNt SaYs So) the company, invested a year after it was founded, and didn't become CEO for another four years.
        fastball 5y ago
        What is a founder? If I incorporate a company and then bring my friend onboard a day later, is he a founder? Why or why not?
        jjulius 5y ago
        First, there's a difference between bringing someone onboard the day after incorporation and the timeline I mentioned. Second, what are you bringing your friend onboard for? Were you collaborating on this idea with them before you incorporated? Or did you bring them on because you realized you needed more money (eg, Musk)? Early investor is what he was, along with chairman, then CEO, but it's disingenuous to call him a founder. The settlement you referenced is really just dick swinging.
        virgilp 5y ago
        The legal result of the settlement is that Musk can call himself a (co)founder, and so can Straubel & Wright. Even Eberhard agreed to that. You may personally feel he's not entitled to the title, but that's just it, a personal feeling. He's literally legally entitled to have this title. Why contradict people on the internet, and say "actually, Musk is not a founder of Tesla"? If anything, it is (right now) disingenuous to claim he is not a founder, given that maybe not all people know the full history and some may believe that he didn't (legally) earn the title.
  - fartcannon 5y ago
    Its not even that complex. If there was an identical Elon that came one year after Elon, he wouldn't be able to have what Elon has. It's all luck of the draw all the way down.
    - varjag 5y ago
      How about why no idential Elon came the year before Elon? It's not like the idea of powered landing was unheard of, and tech ingredients were there for arguably decades.
    - ralfd 5y ago
      > Its not even that complex. If there was an identical Elon that came one year after Elon, he wouldn't be able to have what Elon has. The universe actually did run that experiment: Kimbal Musk is the younger brother of Elon. He too was born at the right time, the explosion of the word wide web, and made very favorable investments and is presumably filthy rich. But he doesn't have the drive to build rockets. https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2021/11/11/the-other-musk-getting-rich-off-tesla-elons-youngest-brother/?sh=232f3b1b7758 https://www.forbes.com/sites/rachelsandler/2021/11/11/the-ot... It is similar to Jeff Bezos brother Mark. Mark Bezos lead by every conventional measure a successful life: high managing career in advertising and at a charity non-profit, wife and 4 kids. But without his brother he wouldn't have a Wiki entry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Bezos https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Bezos
      - sillysaurusx 5y ago
        People seem to be confusing birth lottery with determination. Working hard is table stakes. But you seem to imply that anyone who isn’t poor can do it, if only they work hard enough. I think this mindset is mistaken.
  - CharlesW 5y ago
    > That said, the average westerner is not struggling to survive… This is an extremely privileged and out-of-touch POV.
    - signatoremo 5y ago
      Care to prove your POV? The average people of country like China isn’t struggling to survive. The average westerner — Americans, Europeans, Japanese, is definitely not either.
- aradox66 5y ago
  Well put. I've never seen someone use the phrase "exception that proves the rule" non-ironically. Why is it more than just a class of exceptions? How does it prove anything?
  - anonporridge 5y ago
    I use that phrase as, we usually elevate exceptional things because they are exceptions. That elevation itself implies that it's something special that goes against the norms (or against the rule). So, our awareness of a small number of exceptions proves the fact that there is an underlying rule that applies to the majority of non exceptional instances.
- ameister14 5y ago
  That's a pretty small group of people to start with. Apparently there have been only nine people between 1750 and 1950 worth over $100 billion dollars. (Wikipedia, so who knows) Of them, 6 were not born into privilege: Cornelius Vanderbilt, Stephen Girard, John D. Rockefeller, Carnegie, John Jakob Astor, and Henry Ford. Including the modern era adds another 9, only 2 of which were not born into privilege - Larry Ellison and Jeff Bezos. You could argue definition of privilege and add Sergey Brin in there maybe. So depending on your definition of privilege and 'massive success,' you might be only just correct, with 10/18 people worth over $100 billion in the last 250 years or so coming from privilege.
Barrin92 5y ago
Most successful tech entrepreneurs seem to come from more or less his demographics, which is a upper middle/professional class upbringing. I don't think coming from extreme old money generally lends itself to entrepreneurship, there's a goldilocks zone that involves some degree of having to work for a living, having migrated or something along those lines.

nickpp 5y ago

> birth lottery Elon Musk was born in South Africa so compared to anyone born in the USA or EU he has lost the birth lottery, I guess.

TwoFerMaggie 5y ago
I would argue that it doesn't just depend on which country. Being born into a privileged class in a less developed country is often times better than an average family in, let's say, US. The inequality is much more severe meaning that you might actually have access to more resource and power.
- nickpp 5y ago
  Sure, the type of family one grows up in has a tremendous impact on one’s outcome in life, but Elon deliberately moved to the USA to have access to opportunities Americans have access to. Location matters too.