4 ms·

> This isn't some fringe crackpot theory - and it shouldn't ever have been treated as such. I agree. I think it got labelled as crackpot because a lot of the e

> This isn't some fringe crackpot theory - and it shouldn't ever have been treated as such. I agree. I think it got labelled as crackpot because a lot of the early proponents were suggesting that it was leaked on purpose, which strays well into conspiracy theory territory.

dnautics 5y ago
You could say that but, based on some revealed communications it also feels (we can never truly know what was in their heads) like there was a concerted effort by denouncers of the lab leak theory to conflate lab leaks with purposeful leaks to discredit the lab leak theory.
timr 5y ago
> I think it got labelled as crackpot because a lot of the early proponents were suggesting that it was leaked on purpose, which strays well into conspiracy theory territory. Maybe, but the early communication allowed for no dissent: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30418-9/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... > The rapid, open, and transparent sharing of data on this outbreak is now being threatened by rumours and misinformation around its origins. We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin. Scientists from multiple countries have published and analysed genomes of the causative agent, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), and they overwhelmingly conclude that this coronavirus originated in wildlife > Conspiracy theories do nothing but create fear, rumours, and prejudice that jeopardise our global collaboration in the fight against this virus. That's not ambiguous language. Pretty much a blatant slamming of the door on all non-natural theories of origin. Anything else was labeled "conspiracy" at a very early stage.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  I remember when it was racist to say it came from China and to wear a mask.
  - yebyen 5y ago
    When it was racist to wear a mask? Have to admit that's a new one for me.
    - johndfsgdgdfg 5y ago
      Not necessrily mask, but defenitely people brought of the question of "cleanliness", which might be very close to hand washing and mask wearing: https://www.vox.com/2020/2/7/21126758/coronavirus-xenophobia-racism-china-asians https://www.vox.com/2020/2/7/21126758/coronavirus-xenophobia...
  - MathCodeLove 5y ago
    There are still plenty of people who will accuse you of sinophobia if you dare acknowledge the ongoing genocide happening in China.
- tim333 5y ago
  A lot of what you mentioned was written by Peter Daszak who is one of the main suspects in terms of lab involvement in the origins. The closest wild strain to covid was found in Laos and there is no wildlife trade to Wuhan but Daszak's organisation seems to have been collecting samples there and shipping them to the Wuhan lab. And then when people say "what samples, lets see" you get stonewalling. Before having too much of a go at the Chinese we should subpoena and get the records from that lot (based in NY).
throwawaychina 5y ago
tonguez 5y ago
Your italics seem to be indicating an “appeal to incredulity”. But you don’t present any actual logical argument for why anyone should not believe it was leaked intentionally.
mrguyorama 5y ago
Plenty of people seem to still believe it was leaked on purpose. I don't understand why. It's right up there with the flat earth and chemtrails on the scale of to what end would they do that, and why wouldn't they do something more effective?

dnautics 5y ago

You could say that but, based on some revealed communications it also feels (we can never truly know what was in their heads) like there was a concerted effort by denouncers of the lab leak theory to conflate lab leaks with purposeful leaks to discredit the lab leak theory.

timr 5y ago

> I think it got labelled as crackpot because a lot of the early proponents were suggesting that it was leaked on purpose, which strays well into conspiracy theory territory. Maybe, but the early communication allowed for no dissent: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(20)30418-9/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... > The rapid, open, and transparent sharing of data on this outbreak is now being threatened by rumours and misinformation around its origins. We stand together to strongly condemn conspiracy theories suggesting that COVID-19 does not have a natural origin. Scientists from multiple countries have published and analysed genomes of the causative agent, severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2), and they overwhelmingly conclude that this coronavirus originated in wildlife > Conspiracy theories do nothing but create fear, rumours, and prejudice that jeopardise our global collaboration in the fight against this virus. That's not ambiguous language. Pretty much a blatant slamming of the door on all non-natural theories of origin. Anything else was labeled "conspiracy" at a very early stage.

ipaddr 5y ago
I remember when it was racist to say it came from China and to wear a mask.
- yebyen 5y ago
  When it was racist to wear a mask? Have to admit that's a new one for me.
  - johndfsgdgdfg 5y ago
    Not necessrily mask, but defenitely people brought of the question of "cleanliness", which might be very close to hand washing and mask wearing: https://www.vox.com/2020/2/7/21126758/coronavirus-xenophobia-racism-china-asians https://www.vox.com/2020/2/7/21126758/coronavirus-xenophobia...
- MathCodeLove 5y ago
  There are still plenty of people who will accuse you of sinophobia if you dare acknowledge the ongoing genocide happening in China.
tim333 5y ago
A lot of what you mentioned was written by Peter Daszak who is one of the main suspects in terms of lab involvement in the origins. The closest wild strain to covid was found in Laos and there is no wildlife trade to Wuhan but Daszak's organisation seems to have been collecting samples there and shipping them to the Wuhan lab. And then when people say "what samples, lets see" you get stonewalling. Before having too much of a go at the Chinese we should subpoena and get the records from that lot (based in NY).

throwawaychina 5y ago

tonguez 5y ago

Your italics seem to be indicating an “appeal to incredulity”. But you don’t present any actual logical argument for why anyone should not believe it was leaked intentionally.

mrguyorama 5y ago

Plenty of people seem to still believe it was leaked on purpose. I don't understand why. It's right up there with the flat earth and chemtrails on the scale of to what end would they do that, and why wouldn't they do something more effective?