5 ms·

You say "profit is always the priority" like its a bad thing. Aren't we all maximizing our profit? Isn't that kind of the point of being in business?

pfortuny 5y ago
Nope. Lots of people stay in business because they just like it AND it gives enough money for a reasonable life.
- djbebs 5y ago
  What makes you think their enjoyment isn't profit?
  - spiderice 5y ago
    No one is saying it isn't. But that's clearly not what is being discussed here. This is just changing the definition mid argument.
  - trinsic2 5y ago
    I think the point of all this is, don't put the cart before horse. Money is a byproduct of what you do to enrich peoples lives. If you put money first, people suffer, and businesses end up suffering in the long run. If you put enriching lives first, real people want to compensate you, hell its kind of unspoken/unconscious law not to take advantage of people that create things that improve life. I can't count how many times I decided to compensate people that made software that enriched my life, not because the asked for it, but because they made something that deserves compensation.
sschueller 5y ago
kevingadd 5y ago
If my profit comes at the cost of your profit eventually things are going to disintegrate. If you optimize for profit aggressively you can end up making decisions that maximize short term profit but destroy the long term viability of your business (or the entire market) For example, Zynga's leadership eventually realized they were salting the earth and ensuring that in the future their genre/model wouldn't work anymore. They did it anyway. They've owned up to this
simion314 5y ago
>Aren't we all maximizing our profit? Isn't that kind of the point of being in business? The full sentence is maximize profit no matter anything else, like profit first , honesty later, family later, friends later, happiness later , health later. Not everyone gets off by increasing some numbers, sometime there is enough.
- throw14082020 5y ago
  But once a company is public, then maximising profit is really the only goal. If you don't do that as a CEO, aren't you being negligent (doing something illegal).
  - flyinglizard 5y ago
    There are many faces to profit. Amazon didn’t turn a profit for twenty years but no one would say Jeff Bezos was negligent. It is more accurate to say that CEOs need to create value. Even then, value can be at one point (liquidate all company assets) or oriented towards the distant future (invest in nuclear fusion tech).
  - bruce511 5y ago
    That really is a myth that needs to die.
    - colinmhayes 5y ago
      No it's really not. Thinking that it means "maximising short term profit is really the only goal" is a myth that needs to die, but maximising net discounted profit is really the only goal of public companies.
      - wtetzner 5y ago
        They're obligated to act in the interest of shareholders. That usually means profits, but could very well be other things.
bruce511 5y ago
It's almost never good business to optimise for profit. Or, perhaps more accurately to optimise for short term profit. For example I can maximise profit by firing all the staff, but continuing to collect subscription revenue for a couple years. Lots of profit, perhaps even "more profit", but a dead business. We spend money on all sorts of things, at the cost of immediate profit. Staff bonuses, end-of-year lunch, social donations, R&D, all come off the bottom line. Now, you can argue that we do it to stay in business, and a business that exists infanitly creates infinite profit, in which case the goal of business is to stay in business. Or perhaps profit is best served by keeping staff forever, in which case the odd benefit increases profit. Profit is important, without it a business will fail - but if that's the _only_ metric then its a very cold unpleasant place to work.
jonshariat 5y ago
It's about shifting the cost of growth to other things like employee health, environment, users, etc that is the problem.
neolefty 5y ago
Taken to certain extremes, yes it is a bad thing. In moderation — for example if you take a wholistic view that incorporates benefit to the society at large as well, then it can be very good.

pfortuny 5y ago

Nope. Lots of people stay in business because they just like it AND it gives enough money for a reasonable life.

djbebs 5y ago
What makes you think their enjoyment isn't profit?
- spiderice 5y ago
  No one is saying it isn't. But that's clearly not what is being discussed here. This is just changing the definition mid argument.
- trinsic2 5y ago
  I think the point of all this is, don't put the cart before horse. Money is a byproduct of what you do to enrich peoples lives. If you put money first, people suffer, and businesses end up suffering in the long run. If you put enriching lives first, real people want to compensate you, hell its kind of unspoken/unconscious law not to take advantage of people that create things that improve life. I can't count how many times I decided to compensate people that made software that enriched my life, not because the asked for it, but because they made something that deserves compensation.

sschueller 5y ago

kevingadd 5y ago

If my profit comes at the cost of your profit eventually things are going to disintegrate. If you optimize for profit aggressively you can end up making decisions that maximize short term profit but destroy the long term viability of your business (or the entire market) For example, Zynga's leadership eventually realized they were salting the earth and ensuring that in the future their genre/model wouldn't work anymore. They did it anyway. They've owned up to this

simion314 5y ago

>Aren't we all maximizing our profit? Isn't that kind of the point of being in business? The full sentence is maximize profit no matter anything else, like profit first , honesty later, family later, friends later, happiness later , health later. Not everyone gets off by increasing some numbers, sometime there is enough.

throw14082020 5y ago
But once a company is public, then maximising profit is really the only goal. If you don't do that as a CEO, aren't you being negligent (doing something illegal).
- flyinglizard 5y ago
  There are many faces to profit. Amazon didn’t turn a profit for twenty years but no one would say Jeff Bezos was negligent. It is more accurate to say that CEOs need to create value. Even then, value can be at one point (liquidate all company assets) or oriented towards the distant future (invest in nuclear fusion tech).
- bruce511 5y ago
  That really is a myth that needs to die.
  - colinmhayes 5y ago
    No it's really not. Thinking that it means "maximising short term profit is really the only goal" is a myth that needs to die, but maximising net discounted profit is really the only goal of public companies.
    - wtetzner 5y ago
      They're obligated to act in the interest of shareholders. That usually means profits, but could very well be other things.

bruce511 5y ago

It's almost never good business to optimise for profit. Or, perhaps more accurately to optimise for short term profit. For example I can maximise profit by firing all the staff, but continuing to collect subscription revenue for a couple years. Lots of profit, perhaps even "more profit", but a dead business. We spend money on all sorts of things, at the cost of immediate profit. Staff bonuses, end-of-year lunch, social donations, R&D, all come off the bottom line. Now, you can argue that we do it to stay in business, and a business that exists infanitly creates infinite profit, in which case the goal of business is to stay in business. Or perhaps profit is best served by keeping staff forever, in which case the odd benefit increases profit. Profit is important, without it a business will fail - but if that's the _only_ metric then its a very cold unpleasant place to work.

jonshariat 5y ago

It's about shifting the cost of growth to other things like employee health, environment, users, etc that is the problem.

neolefty 5y ago

Taken to certain extremes, yes it is a bad thing. In moderation — for example if you take a wholistic view that incorporates benefit to the society at large as well, then it can be very good.