5 ms·

Personally, I would love to quit working and take care of my family at home. I find much more joy in that than working a programming career. I think a lot of me

by ok_dad 5y ago

Personally, I would love to quit working and take care of my family at home. I find much more joy in that than working a programming career. I think a lot of men have been conditioned to think we have to be the provider much like women have been conditioned to think they have to be a homemaker.

danbolt 5y ago
Agreed; I think a lot of the shame deviating from that is both internalized and external.
mekal 5y ago
I'm in the same boat as you, but I think it's important to remember another factor besides conditioning. It's much easier to say "I would love to quit" when you have a job than it is to be happy not having a job when you aren't sure if you could actually get one to begin with. Similarly, if you know you could take someone in a fight, and they challenge you in public...its easier in that case to "take the high road" and walk away than it would be if you knew you would lose the fight, or you weren't confident you would win. The people in the latter case are much more likely to feel shame and/or resentment towards the aggressor later on. I think with "power" like that its easier to make the best choice in many cases. It's a shame too...I know a few people that are miserable because they don't have a "real job", even though they don't really need one financially. That lack of power keeps them from being happy and choosing the lifestyle that would obviously be best otherwise.
- ok_dad 5y ago
  I don't really understand your comment, sorry! However, in my case, I think taking care of my family would be my "real job" since it actually takes a lot of effort! My wife does a lot around here, and I consider her work as integral to our family's well-being as my work; maybe even moreso.
Beltalowda 5y ago
Indeed; how is it fair that men are "forced" to work and provide income (with all the stress associated for that, especially for low-earners) and are "forced" to miss out on their kids? It seems to me that's just as much of an injustice as women being "forced" to stay at home. ("forced" in quotes as it's not strongly forced, but rather "forced" by expectations, prospects, etc.) I've long considered traditional gender roles of man works and provides income and woman raises kids and cooks to be unfair to both genders and a general issue that affects everyone, and not really a "feminist" issue as such (or rather, not exclusively feminist). In my country there's been a lot of discussion that a lot of women are working part-time rather than full-time, with many claiming this is horrible and evidence of discrimination. Maybe that plays a part, but it seems to me the real question is "why aren't more men working part-time?" rather than "why aren't more women working full-time?" And more general: up to a few decades ago it was entirely normal for a single earner to support an entire family and still have money for a yearly holiday. Now that's much harder financially, if not outright impossible. Something really profound changed in our economy with seemingly few people noticing or commenting on it.
- ok_dad 5y ago
  Men are socialized to work by the same society that women are socialized to stay home and make babies. Feminism's direct goals would be breaking that down so that men could stay home (unfortunately we cannot make babies) and women could work, or any other combination, without the traditional gender role boundaries. Feminism's goals are good for everyone.
  - skinkestek 5y ago
    You are talking about a subset of reasonable feminists. Feminism also contains the culture that wants six year old boys to be held back, feel shame and suffer for the sins of their fathers. Feminism also contains the idea that being a man is some kind of disease, something to be ashamed of.
    - ok_dad 5y ago
      There are examples of men who want women to be chained to the kitchen; we should consider the reasonable views though, and not throw the baby out with the bath water. Ignore the fringe elements, even though that’s the thing that the media and social algorithms push since they’re the most “engaging”. They are the small minority.
worik 5y ago
I did. It was great. Until my children grew up and I rejoined the workforce. That has been a struggle.
- boringg 5y ago
  I figure this is the tough transition once the kids are older and try to get back into the career-mode after a long hiatus. I hope you are finding your footing.
- drewzero1 5y ago
  I think this is unfortunately a common issue among those who leave the workforce to raise children; looking back, it certainly seems to match my mother's experience. I'm preparing to follow that path as well but hoping to keep up by doing small projects or piecework at home when I can.

by ok_dad 5y ago

danbolt 5y ago

Agreed; I think a lot of the shame deviating from that is both internalized and external.

mekal 5y ago

I'm in the same boat as you, but I think it's important to remember another factor besides conditioning. It's much easier to say "I would love to quit" when you have a job than it is to be happy not having a job when you aren't sure if you could actually get one to begin with. Similarly, if you know you could take someone in a fight, and they challenge you in public...its easier in that case to "take the high road" and walk away than it would be if you knew you would lose the fight, or you weren't confident you would win. The people in the latter case are much more likely to feel shame and/or resentment towards the aggressor later on. I think with "power" like that its easier to make the best choice in many cases. It's a shame too...I know a few people that are miserable because they don't have a "real job", even though they don't really need one financially. That lack of power keeps them from being happy and choosing the lifestyle that would obviously be best otherwise.

ok_dad 5y ago
I don't really understand your comment, sorry! However, in my case, I think taking care of my family would be my "real job" since it actually takes a lot of effort! My wife does a lot around here, and I consider her work as integral to our family's well-being as my work; maybe even moreso.

Beltalowda 5y ago

Indeed; how is it fair that men are "forced" to work and provide income (with all the stress associated for that, especially for low-earners) and are "forced" to miss out on their kids? It seems to me that's just as much of an injustice as women being "forced" to stay at home. ("forced" in quotes as it's not strongly forced, but rather "forced" by expectations, prospects, etc.) I've long considered traditional gender roles of man works and provides income and woman raises kids and cooks to be unfair to both genders and a general issue that affects everyone, and not really a "feminist" issue as such (or rather, not exclusively feminist). In my country there's been a lot of discussion that a lot of women are working part-time rather than full-time, with many claiming this is horrible and evidence of discrimination. Maybe that plays a part, but it seems to me the real question is "why aren't more men working part-time?" rather than "why aren't more women working full-time?" And more general: up to a few decades ago it was entirely normal for a single earner to support an entire family and still have money for a yearly holiday. Now that's much harder financially, if not outright impossible. Something really profound changed in our economy with seemingly few people noticing or commenting on it.

ok_dad 5y ago
Men are socialized to work by the same society that women are socialized to stay home and make babies. Feminism's direct goals would be breaking that down so that men could stay home (unfortunately we cannot make babies) and women could work, or any other combination, without the traditional gender role boundaries. Feminism's goals are good for everyone.
- skinkestek 5y ago
  You are talking about a subset of reasonable feminists. Feminism also contains the culture that wants six year old boys to be held back, feel shame and suffer for the sins of their fathers. Feminism also contains the idea that being a man is some kind of disease, something to be ashamed of.
  - ok_dad 5y ago
    There are examples of men who want women to be chained to the kitchen; we should consider the reasonable views though, and not throw the baby out with the bath water. Ignore the fringe elements, even though that’s the thing that the media and social algorithms push since they’re the most “engaging”. They are the small minority.

worik 5y ago

I did. It was great. Until my children grew up and I rejoined the workforce. That has been a struggle.

boringg 5y ago
I figure this is the tough transition once the kids are older and try to get back into the career-mode after a long hiatus. I hope you are finding your footing.
drewzero1 5y ago
I think this is unfortunately a common issue among those who leave the workforce to raise children; looking back, it certainly seems to match my mother's experience. I'm preparing to follow that path as well but hoping to keep up by doing small projects or piecework at home when I can.