9 ms·

I dunno man, we're in a Windows world. I word at an MSP and I am a linux enthusiast at heart, but I had to adapt to this Windows world and Teams is a huge part

I dunno man, we're in a Windows world. I word at an MSP and I am a linux enthusiast at heart, but I had to adapt to this Windows world and Teams is a huge part of that. Do I wish that we could just use... idk an internal IRC server? Yeah sure, that'd be great. But Teams allows us to organize meetings and communicate EFFECTIVELY. Sometimes adaptation is a huge part of this industry, in my opinion. I think that if you dislike Teams, and can not adapt, you may not be effective in this job market unless you free-lance or find some small startup that ... doesn't use any of the modern communication applications.

arwineap 5y ago
> we're in a Windows world There are at least dozens of us linux workers here
- piousfraud 5y ago
  Of course there are -- and thats great. But... the point is the same. Not many businesses these days are using a linux stack. Is it unfortunate? Yes. Do I like it? no. But working in IT in any capacity means that you have to adapt... thats my main point.
  - pram 5y ago
    I frankly think you have it backwards. Practically the majority of business server+cloud software runs on Linux, unless you're a literal desktop janitor.
    - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
      Perhaps this comment that I left elsewhere in this thread might interest you: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30266721 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30266721
ncmncm 5y ago
This is terrible advice, easily the worst answer thus far. Anyone who has any difficulty finding non-MS-bound openings is looking in the wrong places.
- PascLeRasc 5y ago
  In Pittsburgh, I have not been able to find a company that lets software engineers use OS X or Linux. I'm actively looking so I'll be very happy to be proven wrong if anyone knows of a place.
  - kyawzazaw 5y ago
    Try Google? I am certain they have an office. Maybe automotive companies like Aurora. Or NLP related companies like Duolinguo.
  - meesterdude 5y ago
    > In Pittsburgh i've never been, but that might be part of why.
  - ncmncm 5y ago
    You don't need to look in Pittsburgh anymore. Many, many companies now hire remote literally anywhere at all, particularly those located in New York City.
- benhurmarcel 5y ago
  Not everyone works in software. In mechanical and aero engineering, it’s 100% Windows.
1shooner 5y ago
> we're in a Windows world. Teams runs on Linux, and almost any conceivable alternative runs on Windows. I don't see what Windows has to do with it, other than suggesting a general cultural tolerance for bad user experience.
- goalieca 5y ago
  I think he means that office365 absolutely dominates.
  - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
    I’ve actually been evaluating email providers for a small business, and it turns out that if you need: 1) shared mailboxes (that multiple people can manage) 2) sane auth[entication|orization] 3) retention of deleted emails then there are only 2 players in the game: Microsoft and Google… and once you pick one of them, it makes sense to also buy into the rest of their respective ecosystems, since everything is well-integrated. The choice then ends up coming down to whether your users prefer Google Docs/Sheets/Mail or Microsoft Word/Excel/Outlook…
    - em-bee 5y ago
      are there really no other alternatives? did you also evaluate standalone email platforms? is there just no commercial email provider with those features or is there not even any tech out there that solves those problems? with shared mailboxes i assume you mean the ability for multiple people to access mails to an address and have everyone synced on responses without sharing login.
      - warrenm 5y ago
        There really are no other [sane] alternatives ... unless you want to go to 50 vendors to save 50 cents per user per year on licensing (and waste 50 hours a month of everyone's time trying to get them use tools that don't integrate in any understandable/low-friction manner)
ghaff 5y ago
Depends where you are I guess. When I attend conferences these days--which to be fair tend to be open source-oriented although not exclusively--I see very little Windows in use and, to be honest, more MacOS than Linux in general. To the topic at hand I've used Teams a couple times. Don't remember it being especially good or bad and probably wouldn't otherwise be a deal-breaker on a job I really wanted to take. But I probably prefer either Zoom or Google Meet.
- Brian_K_White 5y ago
  OP didn't say this, but it's probably more that Teams rarely stands alone. If they're using Teams then surely they are also using office365 and exchange & outlook and you probably are forced to use a MS account and a laptop running Windows and must use Outlook. If they used Teams, but you didn't actually have to spend all day on Teams, and everything else was fine, you could work on your own linux machine and use thunderbird for email, and you just had to fire up the linux Teams occasionally, then that should be fine. But if you have to be logged in all day, even if everything else is good, then it's effectively a large part of your life and you should seek to identify such things rather than just suffer them.
gensym 5y ago
It's been over a decade since I've used Windows for anything other than testing that something works on Windows. Most software engineers I know are in a similar position. I suppose if I wanted to work a a really big company, that would change, but the "Windows world" feels more like a historical relic than a present reality.
engineerDave 5y ago
I think the argument for Teams falls apart when Slack, not IRC, is factored into the equation. The only argument that is justifiable for Teams is if you're on O365 is slots into your organization easily, outside of that Teams is pretty bad. It's main selling point seems to be "you already have it". It's as if MS execs pointed at Slack and said "engineers make us that" and gave them a weekend to do it. The UX on Slack is almost unusable. It's some of what Slack does but with about 5 more clicks needed per operation, assuming you can even do the operation.
jvanveen 5y ago
Teams only show 4 streams at a time on Linux, the video/audio quality is mediocre and the video quality in the webclient is worse than the one using an Electron container, probably to force the app. Screensharing always tends to get stuck after a while, and they ignore any requests to start supporting Wayland, even while it takes minimal changes(update Electron). Nowadays it's easy to setup your own conference server, and use webbased clients that don't require yet another Electron container. For instance, Galene(https://github.com/jech/galene https://github.com/jech/galene) is an excellent resource-friendly SFU built on top of Pion(Golang). Shameless plug: I'm the author of Pyrite(https://github.com/garage44/pyrite https://github.com/garage44/pyrite), an alternative WebRTC frontend for Galene
- warrenm 5y ago
  >Nowadays it's easy to setup your own conference server Not something any normal business has any business worrying about Want to do it for funsies on your own time? Cool For work? No That's not sane

arwineap 5y ago

> we're in a Windows world There are at least dozens of us linux workers here

piousfraud 5y ago
Of course there are -- and thats great. But... the point is the same. Not many businesses these days are using a linux stack. Is it unfortunate? Yes. Do I like it? no. But working in IT in any capacity means that you have to adapt... thats my main point.
- pram 5y ago
  I frankly think you have it backwards. Practically the majority of business server+cloud software runs on Linux, unless you're a literal desktop janitor.
  - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
    Perhaps this comment that I left elsewhere in this thread might interest you: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30266721 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30266721

ncmncm 5y ago

This is terrible advice, easily the worst answer thus far. Anyone who has any difficulty finding non-MS-bound openings is looking in the wrong places.

PascLeRasc 5y ago
In Pittsburgh, I have not been able to find a company that lets software engineers use OS X or Linux. I'm actively looking so I'll be very happy to be proven wrong if anyone knows of a place.
- kyawzazaw 5y ago
  Try Google? I am certain they have an office. Maybe automotive companies like Aurora. Or NLP related companies like Duolinguo.
- meesterdude 5y ago
  > In Pittsburgh i've never been, but that might be part of why.
- ncmncm 5y ago
  You don't need to look in Pittsburgh anymore. Many, many companies now hire remote literally anywhere at all, particularly those located in New York City.
benhurmarcel 5y ago
Not everyone works in software. In mechanical and aero engineering, it’s 100% Windows.

1shooner 5y ago

> we're in a Windows world. Teams runs on Linux, and almost any conceivable alternative runs on Windows. I don't see what Windows has to do with it, other than suggesting a general cultural tolerance for bad user experience.

goalieca 5y ago
I think he means that office365 absolutely dominates.
- Tijdreiziger 5y ago
  I’ve actually been evaluating email providers for a small business, and it turns out that if you need: 1) shared mailboxes (that multiple people can manage) 2) sane auth[entication|orization] 3) retention of deleted emails then there are only 2 players in the game: Microsoft and Google… and once you pick one of them, it makes sense to also buy into the rest of their respective ecosystems, since everything is well-integrated. The choice then ends up coming down to whether your users prefer Google Docs/Sheets/Mail or Microsoft Word/Excel/Outlook…
  - em-bee 5y ago
    are there really no other alternatives? did you also evaluate standalone email platforms? is there just no commercial email provider with those features or is there not even any tech out there that solves those problems? with shared mailboxes i assume you mean the ability for multiple people to access mails to an address and have everyone synced on responses without sharing login.
    - warrenm 5y ago
      There really are no other [sane] alternatives ... unless you want to go to 50 vendors to save 50 cents per user per year on licensing (and waste 50 hours a month of everyone's time trying to get them use tools that don't integrate in any understandable/low-friction manner)

ghaff 5y ago

Depends where you are I guess. When I attend conferences these days--which to be fair tend to be open source-oriented although not exclusively--I see very little Windows in use and, to be honest, more MacOS than Linux in general. To the topic at hand I've used Teams a couple times. Don't remember it being especially good or bad and probably wouldn't otherwise be a deal-breaker on a job I really wanted to take. But I probably prefer either Zoom or Google Meet.

Brian_K_White 5y ago
OP didn't say this, but it's probably more that Teams rarely stands alone. If they're using Teams then surely they are also using office365 and exchange & outlook and you probably are forced to use a MS account and a laptop running Windows and must use Outlook. If they used Teams, but you didn't actually have to spend all day on Teams, and everything else was fine, you could work on your own linux machine and use thunderbird for email, and you just had to fire up the linux Teams occasionally, then that should be fine. But if you have to be logged in all day, even if everything else is good, then it's effectively a large part of your life and you should seek to identify such things rather than just suffer them.

gensym 5y ago

It's been over a decade since I've used Windows for anything other than testing that something works on Windows. Most software engineers I know are in a similar position. I suppose if I wanted to work a a really big company, that would change, but the "Windows world" feels more like a historical relic than a present reality.

engineerDave 5y ago

I think the argument for Teams falls apart when Slack, not IRC, is factored into the equation. The only argument that is justifiable for Teams is if you're on O365 is slots into your organization easily, outside of that Teams is pretty bad. It's main selling point seems to be "you already have it". It's as if MS execs pointed at Slack and said "engineers make us that" and gave them a weekend to do it. The UX on Slack is almost unusable. It's some of what Slack does but with about 5 more clicks needed per operation, assuming you can even do the operation.

jvanveen 5y ago

Teams only show 4 streams at a time on Linux, the video/audio quality is mediocre and the video quality in the webclient is worse than the one using an Electron container, probably to force the app. Screensharing always tends to get stuck after a while, and they ignore any requests to start supporting Wayland, even while it takes minimal changes(update Electron). Nowadays it's easy to setup your own conference server, and use webbased clients that don't require yet another Electron container. For instance, Galene(https://github.com/jech/galene https://github.com/jech/galene) is an excellent resource-friendly SFU built on top of Pion(Golang). Shameless plug: I'm the author of Pyrite(https://github.com/garage44/pyrite https://github.com/garage44/pyrite), an alternative WebRTC frontend for Galene

warrenm 5y ago
>Nowadays it's easy to setup your own conference server Not something any normal business has any business worrying about Want to do it for funsies on your own time? Cool For work? No That's not sane