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> I have my reservations about CloudFlare with regard to centralizing the web, but this tunnel is fantastic Superior UI/UX offered by centralized systems is wh

by api 5y ago

> I have my reservations about CloudFlare with regard to centralizing the web, but this tunnel is fantastic Superior UI/UX offered by centralized systems is why everything is being centralized. People will trade everything including privacy and security for ease of use. The market has shown this time and time again.

hombre_fatal 5y ago
Getting ddosed by a $5 botnet, which gets cheaper every day, tends to change people's minds about Cloudflare. Your users don't really care about decentralized utopia when your service doesn't work.
- moontear 5y ago
  Help me understand what you mean: my service ok particular wouldn’t be ddosed because nobody cares. I guess bots are hitting CF IPs at large and therefore services might be disrupted?
  - hombre_fatal 5y ago
    Well, every service that gets ddosed was once a service that nobody cared about. But if your service is in a category that attracts ddos (like a forum or game) and you ever get enough traction for someone to care (doesn’t take much), it might surprise you how cheap it is to take you down and how limited your options are against a simple volumetric attack.
- api 5y ago
  The only decentralization that's going to work is actual decentralization where there's not really anything to DDOS, or rather the entire system is itself a botnet.
  - acdha 5y ago
    There’s always something to DDoS. It comes down to whether the attacker has more resources than you have server capacity, and these days attacks can be measured in terabits.
  - fomine3 5y ago
    Ultimately big CDN is the only way to win for DDoS.
anderspitman 5y ago
Not to mention Cloudflare Tunnel is a loss leader. Basically any new entrant has to either get funding or justify charging money for tunnel traffic. Cloudflare Tunnel has gotten good enough there aren't a lot of ways to be better left. A couple would be offering e2ee and a less stringent ToS (technically anything other than normal HTML websites is not permitted, though I'm not aware of this ever being enforced, yet).
- NicoJuicy 5y ago
  Cloudflare already has the bandwidth. I suppose tunnel doesn't cost much ( or even anything) compared to the rest since they pay for the size of the pipe. When someone uses the tunnel, they never have to go outside of cloudflare. Since the traffic ( i suspect) would stay very local. Perhaps it could be even cheaper in the end for them.
  - anderspitman 5y ago
    Good point, but they do still have to pay development costs for Cloudflare Tunnel.
    - NicoJuicy 5y ago
      That's why i explicitly mentioned the cost of the bandwidth. I wasn't talking about the development/maintenance.

by api 5y ago

hombre_fatal 5y ago

Getting ddosed by a $5 botnet, which gets cheaper every day, tends to change people's minds about Cloudflare. Your users don't really care about decentralized utopia when your service doesn't work.

moontear 5y ago
Help me understand what you mean: my service ok particular wouldn’t be ddosed because nobody cares. I guess bots are hitting CF IPs at large and therefore services might be disrupted?
- hombre_fatal 5y ago
  Well, every service that gets ddosed was once a service that nobody cared about. But if your service is in a category that attracts ddos (like a forum or game) and you ever get enough traction for someone to care (doesn’t take much), it might surprise you how cheap it is to take you down and how limited your options are against a simple volumetric attack.
api 5y ago
The only decentralization that's going to work is actual decentralization where there's not really anything to DDOS, or rather the entire system is itself a botnet.
- acdha 5y ago
  There’s always something to DDoS. It comes down to whether the attacker has more resources than you have server capacity, and these days attacks can be measured in terabits.
- fomine3 5y ago
  Ultimately big CDN is the only way to win for DDoS.

anderspitman 5y ago

Not to mention Cloudflare Tunnel is a loss leader. Basically any new entrant has to either get funding or justify charging money for tunnel traffic. Cloudflare Tunnel has gotten good enough there aren't a lot of ways to be better left. A couple would be offering e2ee and a less stringent ToS (technically anything other than normal HTML websites is not permitted, though I'm not aware of this ever being enforced, yet).

NicoJuicy 5y ago
Cloudflare already has the bandwidth. I suppose tunnel doesn't cost much ( or even anything) compared to the rest since they pay for the size of the pipe. When someone uses the tunnel, they never have to go outside of cloudflare. Since the traffic ( i suspect) would stay very local. Perhaps it could be even cheaper in the end for them.
- anderspitman 5y ago
  Good point, but they do still have to pay development costs for Cloudflare Tunnel.
  - NicoJuicy 5y ago
    That's why i explicitly mentioned the cost of the bandwidth. I wasn't talking about the development/maintenance.