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Is it so surprising? Humans desire status, this is pretty much baked in. Ambitious 20-somethings suffer from this even more than usual. If you cannot get status

by WJW 5y ago

Is it so surprising? Humans desire status, this is pretty much baked in. Ambitious 20-somethings suffer from this even more than usual. If you cannot get status quick enough in the "real" world because the entrenched interests are too powerful, building your own subculture in which to be important is a tried and tested strategy.

thow-58d4e8b 5y ago
This was also the case in eastern Europe during the Cold war - some countries came quite close to being classless societies, but people there nevertheless made up a bunch of status symbols out of fairly ordinary items - like jeans. Young people didn't flinch at spending one-month worth of income for a pair of jeans, while scoffing at nearly identical non-denim trousers, at 1/20 the price
- paganel 5y ago
  There were also the car number-plates. Out here in Romania having a 3-digit car-number plate meant you most probably were part of the nomenklatura (the local one, if you had a county-specific number-plate, the national one if your number-plate was from Bucharest). The "normal" people had 4-digit number-plates, while the great majority of people had no car at all. Quite interesting.
  - SuoDuanDao 5y ago
    I've heard Saudis will similarly pay as much for their license plates as for their sports cars, repeating or alliterative numbers being highly desired.
    - gilleain 5y ago
      Yes indeed: https://www.regtransfers.co.uk/info/worlds-most-expensive-number-plates https://www.regtransfers.co.uk/info/worlds-most-expensive-nu... 9 out of the top 10 are in UAE. Top price 7 million.
- barry-cotter 5y ago
  > some countries came quite close to being classless societies This really does not comport with my own knowledge. At minimum there was always the nomenklatura and the ruled. None of the Soviet ruled states went as far as the Chinese in putting the boot on the educated class so the pre conquest educated class stayed relatively distinct. Soviet rule didn’t last that long. The extermination of the Jews and expulsion of the Germans had at least as large an impact on the class structure.
bsenftner 5y ago
I believe, after survival, the #1 human driver is prestige. It is amazing how immediate it manifests. People moments after surviving imminent death will jockey for positions of influence with their saviors. It is baked into the human psyche, and as long as we ignore this Orwellian Driver of Human Personalities, we are doomed to repeating civilization wide failures.
- citywide-fondue 5y ago
  Is there a specific example you are referring to re: “ People moments after surviving imminent death will jockey for positions of influence with their saviors”?

by WJW 5y ago

thow-58d4e8b 5y ago

This was also the case in eastern Europe during the Cold war - some countries came quite close to being classless societies, but people there nevertheless made up a bunch of status symbols out of fairly ordinary items - like jeans. Young people didn't flinch at spending one-month worth of income for a pair of jeans, while scoffing at nearly identical non-denim trousers, at 1/20 the price

paganel 5y ago
There were also the car number-plates. Out here in Romania having a 3-digit car-number plate meant you most probably were part of the nomenklatura (the local one, if you had a county-specific number-plate, the national one if your number-plate was from Bucharest). The "normal" people had 4-digit number-plates, while the great majority of people had no car at all. Quite interesting.
- SuoDuanDao 5y ago
  I've heard Saudis will similarly pay as much for their license plates as for their sports cars, repeating or alliterative numbers being highly desired.
  - gilleain 5y ago
    Yes indeed: https://www.regtransfers.co.uk/info/worlds-most-expensive-number-plates https://www.regtransfers.co.uk/info/worlds-most-expensive-nu... 9 out of the top 10 are in UAE. Top price 7 million.
barry-cotter 5y ago
> some countries came quite close to being classless societies This really does not comport with my own knowledge. At minimum there was always the nomenklatura and the ruled. None of the Soviet ruled states went as far as the Chinese in putting the boot on the educated class so the pre conquest educated class stayed relatively distinct. Soviet rule didn’t last that long. The extermination of the Jews and expulsion of the Germans had at least as large an impact on the class structure.

bsenftner 5y ago

I believe, after survival, the #1 human driver is prestige. It is amazing how immediate it manifests. People moments after surviving imminent death will jockey for positions of influence with their saviors. It is baked into the human psyche, and as long as we ignore this Orwellian Driver of Human Personalities, we are doomed to repeating civilization wide failures.

citywide-fondue 5y ago
Is there a specific example you are referring to re: “ People moments after surviving imminent death will jockey for positions of influence with their saviors”?