6 ms·

> I can't see a significant cohort that would be unhappy that their governments stood the ground on their data not being sent to the US. There are >400 million

by spupe 5y ago

> I can't see a significant cohort that would be unhappy that their governments stood the ground on their data not being sent to the US. There are >400 million monthly active Facebook users in Europe today [1]. It is pretty absurd to think that a substantial amount of them would prefer losing access to Facebook over an EU mandate, especially considering most people are likely aware at this point that Facebook is using their data. I don't think this issue is as clear cut as you and many other posters here see it. I find that the EU's decision can overwhelm legitimate services that may not be able to comply with this regulation, and I also see it as part of their intention to build a China-like firewall eventually - they are already trying to shutdown Telegram, for example. [1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/745400/facebook-europe-mau-by-quarter/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/745400/facebook-europe-m...

krageon 5y ago
> especially considering most people are likely aware at this point that Facebook is using their data. I would contend most facebook users are not, as they are broadly either poorly informed or very old.
herbst 5y ago
When I tell people 'But Facebook is already breaking your privacy laws right now' I usually get something along 'then why does the EU not block it?' So imho this can not happen soon enough, people think the EU is actually protecting them when it isn't. I hope more countries join as well
- spupe 5y ago
  And what percentage of those have abandoned or switched off from Facebook upon learning about their practices? I doubt a majority of Facebook users would agree with it being prevented from operating in European Union due to their servers being in the US. This is a precedent that can and will lead to undue internet restrictions in the future. So while I share your concern that we should do more regarding data protection, I'm not sure this is the way to go.
  - ChoGGi 5y ago
    The ones that believe the gov is protecting them? Probably none?
  - herbst 5y ago
    > what percentage of those have abandoned or switched off from Facebook upon learning about their practices? The far majority of my social circle doesn't use Facebook and removed their accounts with all the bells and whistles years ago Imo DNS banning software that is breaking privacy laws is not to much to ask to. Anyone can use a different DNS, nobody cares. I am usually against banning, but we ban other dangerous scam things too in order to protect customers because sorrily this is the best we have.
prmoustache 5y ago
>There are >400 million monthly active Facebook users in Europe today [1]. It is pretty absurd to think that a substantial amount of them would prefer losing access to Facebook over an EU mandate, especially considering most people are likely aware at this point that Facebook is using their data. Most people who rely on it are business, and they stay in to compete with businesses who are also in it. If nobody has access to it they will just rely on other means, their own personnal website, other social medias that would fill the gap... Most individual would be annoyed at first as well, but then all end up migrating to the another thing once the dust settle. More than facebook, this would be more the loss of instagram and whatsapp that would annoy them but they would easily move to telegram and signal. Many non-tech people already have a telegram account for example but don't move out of whatsapp because they are all on it already. Nobody wants to be that guys asking anyone else to abandon the group and move to somewhere else just for the heck of moving. As for instagram, they would quickly switch to tiktok, snapchat or something else that fills the gap. I'd like to think open source and decentralized tool would have en edge but I am very doubtful it would happen. It is always easier to migrate to a single jail cell than being free. Anyway, Facebook/Meta has just filled a form to cover their ass. They aren't threatening to leave EU. If they have to keep and manage the data in EU they will find a way. It will just be costly and hurt their finances hence the obligation for them to mention the riskier route.
- spupe 5y ago
  > Many non-tech people already have a telegram account for example but don't move out of whatsapp because they are all on it already. Nobody wants to be that guys asking anyone else to abandon the group and move to somewhere else just for the heck of moving. As for instagram, they would quickly switch to tiktok, snapchat or something else that fills the gap. Telegram's servers are in Russia, and Tiktok's are in China. If shutting down Facebook in the European Union means people are going to switch to those other apps, that would defeat the purpose of this initiative. I would also disagree that they are equivalent, I cannot imagine my mom migrating to any other social media if Facebook ceases to be available. She would likely go and protest this measure actually. I agree this is likely a bluff, I just disagree that we should not seriously consider the actual costs of blocking over 400 million people from doing what they want to do. Also note that ultimately this could be viewed as a protectionist measure, so Europe-based social media companies would have a big advantage. I'm not sure I'm ok with that either.
thaway2839 5y ago
I'm not sure why anyone would draw the conclusion that they are losing Facebook because of an EU mandate, when all other competitors continue to work for them. And if they dig into it even slightly they will probably be even more horrified at Facebook once they find out they lost Facebook because it considered transferring their data to the US more important than having them as a user.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by spupe 5y ago

krageon 5y ago

> especially considering most people are likely aware at this point that Facebook is using their data. I would contend most facebook users are not, as they are broadly either poorly informed or very old.

herbst 5y ago

When I tell people 'But Facebook is already breaking your privacy laws right now' I usually get something along 'then why does the EU not block it?' So imho this can not happen soon enough, people think the EU is actually protecting them when it isn't. I hope more countries join as well

spupe 5y ago
And what percentage of those have abandoned or switched off from Facebook upon learning about their practices? I doubt a majority of Facebook users would agree with it being prevented from operating in European Union due to their servers being in the US. This is a precedent that can and will lead to undue internet restrictions in the future. So while I share your concern that we should do more regarding data protection, I'm not sure this is the way to go.
- ChoGGi 5y ago
  The ones that believe the gov is protecting them? Probably none?
- herbst 5y ago
  > what percentage of those have abandoned or switched off from Facebook upon learning about their practices? The far majority of my social circle doesn't use Facebook and removed their accounts with all the bells and whistles years ago Imo DNS banning software that is breaking privacy laws is not to much to ask to. Anyone can use a different DNS, nobody cares. I am usually against banning, but we ban other dangerous scam things too in order to protect customers because sorrily this is the best we have.

prmoustache 5y ago

>There are >400 million monthly active Facebook users in Europe today [1]. It is pretty absurd to think that a substantial amount of them would prefer losing access to Facebook over an EU mandate, especially considering most people are likely aware at this point that Facebook is using their data. Most people who rely on it are business, and they stay in to compete with businesses who are also in it. If nobody has access to it they will just rely on other means, their own personnal website, other social medias that would fill the gap... Most individual would be annoyed at first as well, but then all end up migrating to the another thing once the dust settle. More than facebook, this would be more the loss of instagram and whatsapp that would annoy them but they would easily move to telegram and signal. Many non-tech people already have a telegram account for example but don't move out of whatsapp because they are all on it already. Nobody wants to be that guys asking anyone else to abandon the group and move to somewhere else just for the heck of moving. As for instagram, they would quickly switch to tiktok, snapchat or something else that fills the gap. I'd like to think open source and decentralized tool would have en edge but I am very doubtful it would happen. It is always easier to migrate to a single jail cell than being free. Anyway, Facebook/Meta has just filled a form to cover their ass. They aren't threatening to leave EU. If they have to keep and manage the data in EU they will find a way. It will just be costly and hurt their finances hence the obligation for them to mention the riskier route.

spupe 5y ago
> Many non-tech people already have a telegram account for example but don't move out of whatsapp because they are all on it already. Nobody wants to be that guys asking anyone else to abandon the group and move to somewhere else just for the heck of moving. As for instagram, they would quickly switch to tiktok, snapchat or something else that fills the gap. Telegram's servers are in Russia, and Tiktok's are in China. If shutting down Facebook in the European Union means people are going to switch to those other apps, that would defeat the purpose of this initiative. I would also disagree that they are equivalent, I cannot imagine my mom migrating to any other social media if Facebook ceases to be available. She would likely go and protest this measure actually. I agree this is likely a bluff, I just disagree that we should not seriously consider the actual costs of blocking over 400 million people from doing what they want to do. Also note that ultimately this could be viewed as a protectionist measure, so Europe-based social media companies would have a big advantage. I'm not sure I'm ok with that either.

thaway2839 5y ago

I'm not sure why anyone would draw the conclusion that they are losing Facebook because of an EU mandate, when all other competitors continue to work for them. And if they dig into it even slightly they will probably be even more horrified at Facebook once they find out they lost Facebook because it considered transferring their data to the US more important than having them as a user.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]