6 ms·

If Google threatened to withdraw (which they're probably not foolish enough to do), the loss of things like Maps (that many other services depend on) and Gmail

If Google threatened to withdraw (which they're probably not foolish enough to do), the loss of things like Maps (that many other services depend on) and Gmail and Google Docs and etc. would worry most advanced economies. If Apple threatened to withdraw, it would not be as worrisome, but it would probably anger a lot of Apple fans. I feel like a significant chunk of FB users are only on it because they need to be in order to communicate with friends and family who stopped checking their email. Knowing that FB was not available in their country would make things simpler. FB is about as popular with their own users as, say, your average Big Tobacco company. They can't quit, but if it weren't available they would be better off after a couple weeks withdrawal.

deleted 5y ago
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etempleton 5y ago
I agree wholeheartedly. I think there would be people who were upset, but it would not be a material loss. Meta repeatedly overestimates the appeal of their products. If Microsoft, Apple, Google decided not to do business you would not only hear an outcry from users, it would in some cases be a material loss and make people's lives worse. I don't think you can say that about any of Meta's products. I quit using Facebook and Instagram years back and the next day was a better day.
openknot 5y ago
This analysis does not cover the importance of Facebook in i) Business pages that are easy to create and maintain for small, local business owners ii) Facebook events for listing information and keeping in touch with registered attendees, as well as event discovery for users iii) The importance for certain creators hosting their content and connecting with their user base on Instagram (assuming that would be also cancelled, as it is owned by Meta) iv) Controversial due to the privacy implications, but a lot of companies rely on paying for Facebook advertisements to survive (which is driving why Meta is valued so highly on the stock market). A tech-savvy user can create a website (or hire someone to); move to Eventbrite or equivalent; change photo-sharing apps to VSCO or equivalent; and back up their messages. But many people don't know these are even options, or lack the funds and technical skills to do this (because their specialties are in non-tech fields, for small business owners and people in certain creative fields). The bottom line is that Meta and its constituent of Facebook are valued highly for important use cases that can't be easily dismissed.
- karmakaze 5y ago
  That's in the short-term. It could be disruptive in a negative way. There are probably already a number of EU companies in the space that could quickly be filling in these gaps. It would take some time to settle and have a dominant popular destination/network.
- Rebelgecko 5y ago
  My understanding is that WhatsApp is also super popular in Europe.
  - commoner 5y ago
    WhatsApp is popular in Europe because of its network effects, not because of any unique features it may have. If it were made unavailable, users would switch to Signal, Telegram, or the European-developed Threema. Businesses would favor this change, since they would no longer have to pay WhatsApp for every conversation they initiate after exceeding their free tier.* * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29711001 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29711001
    - tluyben2 5y ago
      Threema is a paid app though so that would not happen imho. For people who care somewhat less about end to end encryption, Telegram is by far the easiest: it just works, everywhere and you have all your data everywhere. I understand that it is a safety feature that it is hard to run the other ones smoothly (independent) on different devices while keeping your history but it is a huge annoyance: in whatsapp you cannot even switch android<>ios with history intact. Matrix (Element in my case) works a lot better with end to end encryption in tact and my history there on all devices but it sometimes 'lost keys' on one of them (? No idea what happens, I did report it) so I have to login again (which is a pita); that is better than the alternatives imho.
  - herbst 5y ago
    It depends on who you ask but Telegram and Signal are just as popular. Most people have more than 1 IM. It's been years when I couldn't contact someone because they just had WhatsApp. People who chat a lot use something different either way because WhatsApp lacks all the cool features.
seanmcdirmid 5y ago
If Apple withdrew, there would simply be people buying their products abroad or via the black market. Hardware is pretty portable like that, unlike services. Even apps can be gotten if you just get gift cards for another country’s App Store. The Great Firewall of China is a perfect example of what happens when Google and Facebook aren’t allowed into a country. Alternatives that the government can better control fill the gap.
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commoner 5y ago
> If Google threatened to withdraw (which they're probably not foolish enough to do), the loss of things like Maps (that many other services depend on) and Gmail and Google Docs and etc. would worry most advanced economies. It would inconvenience those who are using these Google services, but the services themselves are easily replaceable. Google Maps can be replaced with HERE Maps, which has a similar feature set. The absence of Google Maps would also accelerate contributions to OpenStreetMap and its ecosystem. Gmail and Google Docs have Zoho Mail and Zoho Docs as alternatives, as well as Microsoft's Outlook.com and Office 365. Nextcloud combined with Collabora Online or OnlyOffice also makes a fine FOSS substitute to Google Docs. Any worry would be in the short term, until companies make the transition to other solutions. I agree that the absence of Facebook would also not pose long-term issues, since users would simply migrate to other social media platforms and businesses would choose other forms of advertising.
- webmobdev 5y ago
  Yeah, that's how I unplugged myself from Google totally. Gmail can be replaced with any paid or free mail service with IMAP.
  - backtoyoujim 5y ago
    https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30051054 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30051054 i thought that was just recent
- DocTomoe 5y ago
  The availability of (often worse) alternatives does not mean a transition will not destroy billions of euros worth of effort and disruption of business processes. I am fairly sure the backlash to losing Google would be significant, even government-ending.
  - axiosgunnar 5y ago
    Should a single foreign for-profit megacorporation have that much power over our elected governments?
hulitu 5y ago
There are other maps programs, email providers and the G suite is a mess. Libre office is better.

deleted 5y ago

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etempleton 5y ago

I agree wholeheartedly. I think there would be people who were upset, but it would not be a material loss. Meta repeatedly overestimates the appeal of their products. If Microsoft, Apple, Google decided not to do business you would not only hear an outcry from users, it would in some cases be a material loss and make people's lives worse. I don't think you can say that about any of Meta's products. I quit using Facebook and Instagram years back and the next day was a better day.

openknot 5y ago

This analysis does not cover the importance of Facebook in i) Business pages that are easy to create and maintain for small, local business owners ii) Facebook events for listing information and keeping in touch with registered attendees, as well as event discovery for users iii) The importance for certain creators hosting their content and connecting with their user base on Instagram (assuming that would be also cancelled, as it is owned by Meta) iv) Controversial due to the privacy implications, but a lot of companies rely on paying for Facebook advertisements to survive (which is driving why Meta is valued so highly on the stock market). A tech-savvy user can create a website (or hire someone to); move to Eventbrite or equivalent; change photo-sharing apps to VSCO or equivalent; and back up their messages. But many people don't know these are even options, or lack the funds and technical skills to do this (because their specialties are in non-tech fields, for small business owners and people in certain creative fields). The bottom line is that Meta and its constituent of Facebook are valued highly for important use cases that can't be easily dismissed.

karmakaze 5y ago
That's in the short-term. It could be disruptive in a negative way. There are probably already a number of EU companies in the space that could quickly be filling in these gaps. It would take some time to settle and have a dominant popular destination/network.
Rebelgecko 5y ago
My understanding is that WhatsApp is also super popular in Europe.
- commoner 5y ago
  WhatsApp is popular in Europe because of its network effects, not because of any unique features it may have. If it were made unavailable, users would switch to Signal, Telegram, or the European-developed Threema. Businesses would favor this change, since they would no longer have to pay WhatsApp for every conversation they initiate after exceeding their free tier.* * https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29711001 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29711001
  - tluyben2 5y ago
    Threema is a paid app though so that would not happen imho. For people who care somewhat less about end to end encryption, Telegram is by far the easiest: it just works, everywhere and you have all your data everywhere. I understand that it is a safety feature that it is hard to run the other ones smoothly (independent) on different devices while keeping your history but it is a huge annoyance: in whatsapp you cannot even switch android<>ios with history intact. Matrix (Element in my case) works a lot better with end to end encryption in tact and my history there on all devices but it sometimes 'lost keys' on one of them (? No idea what happens, I did report it) so I have to login again (which is a pita); that is better than the alternatives imho.
- herbst 5y ago
  It depends on who you ask but Telegram and Signal are just as popular. Most people have more than 1 IM. It's been years when I couldn't contact someone because they just had WhatsApp. People who chat a lot use something different either way because WhatsApp lacks all the cool features.

seanmcdirmid 5y ago

If Apple withdrew, there would simply be people buying their products abroad or via the black market. Hardware is pretty portable like that, unlike services. Even apps can be gotten if you just get gift cards for another country’s App Store. The Great Firewall of China is a perfect example of what happens when Google and Facebook aren’t allowed into a country. Alternatives that the government can better control fill the gap.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

commoner 5y ago

> If Google threatened to withdraw (which they're probably not foolish enough to do), the loss of things like Maps (that many other services depend on) and Gmail and Google Docs and etc. would worry most advanced economies. It would inconvenience those who are using these Google services, but the services themselves are easily replaceable. Google Maps can be replaced with HERE Maps, which has a similar feature set. The absence of Google Maps would also accelerate contributions to OpenStreetMap and its ecosystem. Gmail and Google Docs have Zoho Mail and Zoho Docs as alternatives, as well as Microsoft's Outlook.com and Office 365. Nextcloud combined with Collabora Online or OnlyOffice also makes a fine FOSS substitute to Google Docs. Any worry would be in the short term, until companies make the transition to other solutions. I agree that the absence of Facebook would also not pose long-term issues, since users would simply migrate to other social media platforms and businesses would choose other forms of advertising.

webmobdev 5y ago
Yeah, that's how I unplugged myself from Google totally. Gmail can be replaced with any paid or free mail service with IMAP.
- backtoyoujim 5y ago
  https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30051054 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30051054 i thought that was just recent
DocTomoe 5y ago
The availability of (often worse) alternatives does not mean a transition will not destroy billions of euros worth of effort and disruption of business processes. I am fairly sure the backlash to losing Google would be significant, even government-ending.
- axiosgunnar 5y ago
  Should a single foreign for-profit megacorporation have that much power over our elected governments?

hulitu 5y ago

There are other maps programs, email providers and the G suite is a mess. Libre office is better.