6 ms·

> I'd personally love to live in a world where passports don't exist and people are free to travel to any country they want to. The European Union exists. It's

> I'd personally love to live in a world where passports don't exist and people are free to travel to any country they want to. The European Union exists. It's pretty cool. Go anywhere, no password required.

mcv 5y ago
I think you still need to have a passport, it just won't be checked by anyone. Unless you get arrested, probably.
- tjansen 5y ago
  No, but you need an identity card (which looks pretty much like a drivers license). Unlike passports, every citizen has one.
  - mcv 5y ago
    That's simply not true. The only identity card I have is a passport. I actually thought the big advantage of id cards over passports was that they would be much cheaper or free, but I just checked, and in Netherland they're only slightly cheaper. It's effectively just a form of limited passport. And clearly not everybody has an id card. It's just that everybody has to have a form of id, which is either a passport or an id card. People with a passport don't need to also have an id card.
    - tjansen 5y ago
      Thanks, wasn't aware that they are optional in some countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identity_cards_in_the_European_Economic_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identity_cards_in_the... Here in Germany, you'd also be allowed to use a passport instead. In practice, however, your home address is only on identity cards, not on passports. So not everybody will accept a passport for validation, or at least you then need an additional proof of residence.
    - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
      I currently have no valid identification whatsoever (everything's expired). I could walk across Europe and nobody can stop me.
- Majestic121 5y ago
  If you're a EU citizen, all you need is a valid ID, which you are required to have on you even in your own country anyway.
  - YEwSdObPQT 5y ago
    The idea that you would be required to have ID in your own country is horrid. In the UK you are not required to have any identification on you.
    - rndgermandude 5y ago
      Why is it horrid? I am genuinely asking. As I understand it, you still need to identify yourself in countries without such an id, like the US or UK, for a lot of reasons, like when opening bank accounts, interacting with the state, etc. But without a national id card, this can become complicated, and these countries often use a lot of defacto ids "replacements" like birth certificates, driver's licenses and so on, which increases the bureaucracy for citizens/customers and potential for fraud. So while I see a lot of pros about national ids, what's the "horrid" drawback of ids? (I am from a country with national id, Germany)
      - Freak_NL 5y ago
        It means legally speaking you can't even go for a run or to a supermarket without one. Of course, it turns out you absolutely can if you're not 'suspicious'. A colleague of mine is short, bald, and wears a keffiyeh. He gets stopped for identity checks from time to time. I am never stopped (obviously, this does give away my skin colour and the fact that I have an unassuming or conformist appearance).
        magicalhippo 5y ago
        As a step to combat racial profiling the police here in Oslo, capital of Norway, will likely soon[1] have to give a receipt[2] if they randomly stop you on the streets, documenting who was searched, by whom and the reason for the search. While I can see some of the objections, it seems reasonable that a temporary restriction of freedom like that gets documented. [1]: https://www.nrk.no/norge/har-startet-kartlegging-for-a-vurdere-omstridt-kvitteringsordning-1.15674410 https://www.nrk.no/norge/har-startet-kartlegging-for-a-vurde... [2]: https://www.vl.no/nyheter/2021/12/03/oslo-tester-ny-metode-mot-etnisk-profilering-kvittering-nar-politiet-stopper-deg/ https://www.vl.no/nyheter/2021/12/03/oslo-tester-ny-metode-m...
- jonp888 5y ago
  No, you only need an national identity card, which most countries issue to everyone anyway.
- Fnoord 5y ago
  Yes, despite certain efforts like YubiCo's and Microsoft's, passwords are still required. For example, on DigiD (Dutch online authentication service), you need a PIN of 5 numbers plus 2FA/MFA (SMS).
- Freak_NL 5y ago
  Or if you're not white, Muslim, Gypsy/Traveller, look poor, wear a hoodie with the hood up or a keffiyeh, or fall into any other checkbox no-one is supposed to use. When travelling in Europe I am well aware of my privilege of being white, middle class, looking healthy, dressed neatly casual or in hiking gear and being two metres tall to boot (I stick out, but I'm invisible to border guards, customs officers, and police). In international trains and near borders you can see people being asked to identify all the time if you take the time to notice it.
  - mcv 5y ago
    This is an incredibly important point that I completely forgot about. That's how privilege works, of course. Thanks for reminding me.
nikanj 5y ago
For some low values of anywhere, anyway. Being able to travel between the member states of the union is nice, but not very different from what USA citizens enjoy w.r.t free travel between states.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
zeckalpha 5y ago
Not completely true. You are thinking of the Schengen Area. Ireland for example requires a passport when arriving from elsewhere in the EU, but is part of the EU.

mcv 5y ago

I think you still need to have a passport, it just won't be checked by anyone. Unless you get arrested, probably.

tjansen 5y ago
No, but you need an identity card (which looks pretty much like a drivers license). Unlike passports, every citizen has one.
- mcv 5y ago
  That's simply not true. The only identity card I have is a passport. I actually thought the big advantage of id cards over passports was that they would be much cheaper or free, but I just checked, and in Netherland they're only slightly cheaper. It's effectively just a form of limited passport. And clearly not everybody has an id card. It's just that everybody has to have a form of id, which is either a passport or an id card. People with a passport don't need to also have an id card.
  - tjansen 5y ago
    Thanks, wasn't aware that they are optional in some countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identity_cards_in_the_European_Economic_Area https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_identity_cards_in_the... Here in Germany, you'd also be allowed to use a passport instead. In practice, however, your home address is only on identity cards, not on passports. So not everybody will accept a passport for validation, or at least you then need an additional proof of residence.
  - hypertele-Xii 5y ago
    I currently have no valid identification whatsoever (everything's expired). I could walk across Europe and nobody can stop me.
Majestic121 5y ago
If you're a EU citizen, all you need is a valid ID, which you are required to have on you even in your own country anyway.
- YEwSdObPQT 5y ago
  The idea that you would be required to have ID in your own country is horrid. In the UK you are not required to have any identification on you.
  - rndgermandude 5y ago
    Why is it horrid? I am genuinely asking. As I understand it, you still need to identify yourself in countries without such an id, like the US or UK, for a lot of reasons, like when opening bank accounts, interacting with the state, etc. But without a national id card, this can become complicated, and these countries often use a lot of defacto ids "replacements" like birth certificates, driver's licenses and so on, which increases the bureaucracy for citizens/customers and potential for fraud. So while I see a lot of pros about national ids, what's the "horrid" drawback of ids? (I am from a country with national id, Germany)
    - Freak_NL 5y ago
      It means legally speaking you can't even go for a run or to a supermarket without one. Of course, it turns out you absolutely can if you're not 'suspicious'. A colleague of mine is short, bald, and wears a keffiyeh. He gets stopped for identity checks from time to time. I am never stopped (obviously, this does give away my skin colour and the fact that I have an unassuming or conformist appearance).
      - magicalhippo 5y ago
        As a step to combat racial profiling the police here in Oslo, capital of Norway, will likely soon[1] have to give a receipt[2] if they randomly stop you on the streets, documenting who was searched, by whom and the reason for the search. While I can see some of the objections, it seems reasonable that a temporary restriction of freedom like that gets documented. [1]: https://www.nrk.no/norge/har-startet-kartlegging-for-a-vurdere-omstridt-kvitteringsordning-1.15674410 https://www.nrk.no/norge/har-startet-kartlegging-for-a-vurde... [2]: https://www.vl.no/nyheter/2021/12/03/oslo-tester-ny-metode-mot-etnisk-profilering-kvittering-nar-politiet-stopper-deg/ https://www.vl.no/nyheter/2021/12/03/oslo-tester-ny-metode-m...
jonp888 5y ago
No, you only need an national identity card, which most countries issue to everyone anyway.
Fnoord 5y ago
Yes, despite certain efforts like YubiCo's and Microsoft's, passwords are still required. For example, on DigiD (Dutch online authentication service), you need a PIN of 5 numbers plus 2FA/MFA (SMS).
Freak_NL 5y ago
Or if you're not white, Muslim, Gypsy/Traveller, look poor, wear a hoodie with the hood up or a keffiyeh, or fall into any other checkbox no-one is supposed to use. When travelling in Europe I am well aware of my privilege of being white, middle class, looking healthy, dressed neatly casual or in hiking gear and being two metres tall to boot (I stick out, but I'm invisible to border guards, customs officers, and police). In international trains and near borders you can see people being asked to identify all the time if you take the time to notice it.
- mcv 5y ago
  This is an incredibly important point that I completely forgot about. That's how privilege works, of course. Thanks for reminding me.

nikanj 5y ago

For some low values of anywhere, anyway. Being able to travel between the member states of the union is nice, but not very different from what USA citizens enjoy w.r.t free travel between states.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

zeckalpha 5y ago

Not completely true. You are thinking of the Schengen Area. Ireland for example requires a passport when arriving from elsewhere in the EU, but is part of the EU.