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I'm fine not having everyone take a citizenship test because the consequences are dire if you make people's citizenship dependent on the test. Statelessness is

I'm fine not having everyone take a citizenship test because the consequences are dire if you make people's citizenship dependent on the test. Statelessness is a cruel thing to put onto someone that can't seem to pass a test. At least the civics test I took was for immigration and I had multiple chances to pass - and mine was easier than the insane test folks take in the US and much more practical. I do agree that we should make sure everyone knows how the systems work in reality, but realistically I'd want to lean into things folks would actually use instead of memorizing dates and names: You don't need to know all the laws, just how they pertain to you. You don't need all government structure, but general and the things you'll probably deal with (local government, motor vehicle laws, etc), what to do if you find yourself disabled, poor, or needing time off for surgery. Making sure everyone knows worker and tenant rights would be a step in the right direction as well, as well as what to do about these sorts of things.

nradov 5y ago
The US citizenship written exam is extremely easy and doesn't require memorizing many dates. Accommodations are available for those with legitimate disabilities. Failing the exam typically won't leave the candidate stateless as they still retain their existing citizenship in another country.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  Have you seen the questions and all the memorization you need to have for it? Dates, history stuff, names of people. Scroll down: They'll ask you 20 of these. Orally - it is not a written test. (I included a government link about it). On the other hand, I had practice tests on a computer (at a school). My test was full of practical things and only a little history: Mine asked me about using the health care system and the schooling system and things like that - the sort of thing that once you learned general knowledge, you didn't have to worry too much if you couldn't remember a historical name or date. I took the civics test required for Norway, by the way, and they have a list of languages you could take it in. Of course, I had to take it to continue my residence so more folks wind up taking it. Edit, forgotten thing: Whether or not someone is stateless depends on the home country, but generally, it won't - mostly because the US doesn't make you give up citizenship before you are granted on in the US. If you want to become a US citizen, though, your citizenship is going to depend, in part, on this civics test. This is what I was referring to. https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship-resource-center/the-2020-version-of-the-civics-test/128-civics-questions-and-answers-with-mp3-audio-2020-version#:~:text=These%20questions%20cover%20important%20topics,version%20of%20the%20civics%20test https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship-resource-center/the-2020-v....
giantg2 5y ago
"insane test folks take in the US" What is insane about it? "You don't need all government structure" Sure, you don't need to know everything. But it sure helps if people understand the role of the three branches, how laws are generally structured, etc. You might be surprised by how many people can't name the three branches of government or don't understand their role. In my opinion, that will eventually lead to abuse/changes of powers such as we see with the federal executive branch usurping powers it never originally had over the past century. It's hard for a citizen to see when rule of law is bypassed if they don't know the rules/structure/purpose of the system.
- Broken_Hippo 5y ago
  "What is insane about it?" I took a civics test for Norway. I had a 6 week civics class, and they try to give the class and the test in a language you know. Mine was in English, as was my test (I'll have to take it in Norwegian before citizenship, as they changed the rules). Most things on the test were very practical things indeed. No need to, for example, memorize every political party that is on the national ballot, for example, and only a question or two (tops) that wanted a historical date at all. The vast majority asked things about the health care system, schooling system, and basic useful things like that. The class added more detail, but they tested basics. The test is electronic, taken at a school so it is secure (no bags/phones at your computer, for example). I could get on a government website and take a practice test, too. I'm American. The american test is more concerned with you learning the propaganda of the country and memorizing dates than it with making sure you can navigate different systems in society. "Topics about government and history", they say. The actual website states, "Although USCIS is aware that there may be additional correct answers to the civics questions, applicants are encouraged to respond to the questions using the answers provided below." [1] They aren't testing how well you can navigate the system or things you'll need to, say, drive: Hence, insane. Though admittedly, it is shorter than I expected: They only ask 20 out of 128 questions (mine was 30ish) - and you only have to get 12 right. Unfortunately, it is also oral, so (for me) it would be much more stressful, especially considering the brutish formality that a lot of American institutions have. [1] https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship-resource-center/the-2020-version-of-the-civics-test/128-civics-questions-and-answers-with-mp3-audio-2020-version#:~:text=These%20questions%20cover%20important%20topics,version%20of%20the%20civics%20test https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship-resource-center/the-2020-v....

nradov 5y ago

The US citizenship written exam is extremely easy and doesn't require memorizing many dates. Accommodations are available for those with legitimate disabilities. Failing the exam typically won't leave the candidate stateless as they still retain their existing citizenship in another country.

Broken_Hippo 5y ago
Have you seen the questions and all the memorization you need to have for it? Dates, history stuff, names of people. Scroll down: They'll ask you 20 of these. Orally - it is not a written test. (I included a government link about it). On the other hand, I had practice tests on a computer (at a school). My test was full of practical things and only a little history: Mine asked me about using the health care system and the schooling system and things like that - the sort of thing that once you learned general knowledge, you didn't have to worry too much if you couldn't remember a historical name or date. I took the civics test required for Norway, by the way, and they have a list of languages you could take it in. Of course, I had to take it to continue my residence so more folks wind up taking it. Edit, forgotten thing: Whether or not someone is stateless depends on the home country, but generally, it won't - mostly because the US doesn't make you give up citizenship before you are granted on in the US. If you want to become a US citizen, though, your citizenship is going to depend, in part, on this civics test. This is what I was referring to. https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship-resource-center/the-2020-version-of-the-civics-test/128-civics-questions-and-answers-with-mp3-audio-2020-version#:~:text=These%20questions%20cover%20important%20topics,version%20of%20the%20civics%20test https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship-resource-center/the-2020-v....

giantg2 5y ago

"insane test folks take in the US" What is insane about it? "You don't need all government structure" Sure, you don't need to know everything. But it sure helps if people understand the role of the three branches, how laws are generally structured, etc. You might be surprised by how many people can't name the three branches of government or don't understand their role. In my opinion, that will eventually lead to abuse/changes of powers such as we see with the federal executive branch usurping powers it never originally had over the past century. It's hard for a citizen to see when rule of law is bypassed if they don't know the rules/structure/purpose of the system.

Broken_Hippo 5y ago
"What is insane about it?" I took a civics test for Norway. I had a 6 week civics class, and they try to give the class and the test in a language you know. Mine was in English, as was my test (I'll have to take it in Norwegian before citizenship, as they changed the rules). Most things on the test were very practical things indeed. No need to, for example, memorize every political party that is on the national ballot, for example, and only a question or two (tops) that wanted a historical date at all. The vast majority asked things about the health care system, schooling system, and basic useful things like that. The class added more detail, but they tested basics. The test is electronic, taken at a school so it is secure (no bags/phones at your computer, for example). I could get on a government website and take a practice test, too. I'm American. The american test is more concerned with you learning the propaganda of the country and memorizing dates than it with making sure you can navigate different systems in society. "Topics about government and history", they say. The actual website states, "Although USCIS is aware that there may be additional correct answers to the civics questions, applicants are encouraged to respond to the questions using the answers provided below." [1] They aren't testing how well you can navigate the system or things you'll need to, say, drive: Hence, insane. Though admittedly, it is shorter than I expected: They only ask 20 out of 128 questions (mine was 30ish) - and you only have to get 12 right. Unfortunately, it is also oral, so (for me) it would be much more stressful, especially considering the brutish formality that a lot of American institutions have. [1] https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship-resource-center/the-2020-version-of-the-civics-test/128-civics-questions-and-answers-with-mp3-audio-2020-version#:~:text=These%20questions%20cover%20important%20topics,version%20of%20the%20civics%20test https://www.uscis.gov/citizenship-resource-center/the-2020-v....