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According to the article they have surveillance camera video showing the incident. That should be time-stamped with a reasonably accurate time and their physica

According to the article they have surveillance camera video showing the incident. That should be time-stamped with a reasonably accurate time and their physical location should be determinable with good accuracy from the video alone. I do not see why the warrant requests data over such a long time frame. It seems likely to me that you could identify the perps from the mobile phone records by simply limiting the warrant request to 5 minutes before and 10 minutes after the event. There will be less data to sift through and the longer window after the event will allow you to track them to a vehicle or a nearby residence, etc. If the perps were carrying phones then they should be identifiable. This warrant is overly broad and will pull innocent people into the investigation including people who may not have been participants but who may have only been in the neighborhood while it was happening and just decided to stop and take a few pictures to pass on to people in their social circles. (Social media cancer sufferers unite!). A crime was committed and it is right to make an effort to locate and prosecute those responsible so that society has an opportunity to hold people accountable for their actions. Once you dig into this you find another situation where it is true that if event A had never happened, then the likelihood of event B occurring is near zero. This event is the event B and in order for justice to be served, those who were involved in event A need to be held accountable. Committing crimes in an attempt to force accountability will not improve the situation for anyone and will likely only result in someone who would otherwise have enjoyed a happy, productive life being locked up for a crime of passion that should never have happened (event B). We need technology that erodes the thin blue line serving as a refuge for cowards seeking to escape accountability for their crimes. Molotov cocktails chunked at a police station will never be that technology. I don't know what it looks like but there are some smart people on this forum who may have useful ideas to promote.

R0b0t1 5y ago
- doodlebugging 5y ago
  Your reply reads like a depressing commentary on the state of our society. I don't agree that we will see a time when police are targeted in their homes and if that ever happens it is likely to be a rare event. I agree with the part about our political mechanisms since so much of the process of making things work for everyone will require political action and compromises that are likely several years, though hopefully not generations, away. The first sentence of the last paragraph has likely always been true of any town or city. Then historically, townspeople who desire a stable existence with a rigid set of rules that apply to everyone will seek to install a lawman or peacekeeper. That lawman will be given responsibility for instilling order, enforcing the law, and detaining those engaging in criminal behavior so that the justice system can be used to determine their guilt or innocence and prescribe an appropriate penalty. Crime in one form or another has been a part of human existence for too many generations to count. Societies have their own mores and define their own set of behaviors that they endorse and that they will sanction. I see targeting police as a really stupid, monumentally bad move since they are the only ones who can reliably identify the bad actors in their midst. Doing stupid shit like that will only close their ranks and put a target on every law-abiding citizen's back as police become more paranoid than they already have been trained to be. We should incentivize the reporting of criminal behavior by law enforcement officers and work to open everything to public scrutiny. I don't know what that looks like technologically speaking but there should be tools in place to allow officers to report criminal behavior and the use of those tools should protect the officer reporting the crime since their own life may be at risk. No matter how much your local police suck, handing out lollipops to reward good cops will never be enough. We need tools that are easy to use, that satisfy the needs of the criminal justice system and enable effective prosecutions. The price of or penalty for non-compliance should be high enough that reporting is incentivized more than the current system of internal whitewashings or cover-ups.
  - sodkmfkwegw 5y ago
    Your solution isn't going to work. No one really "polices the police", and LAPD literally has 18 different gangs within the department. This is why the push for body cameras is so strong- there is no other way than to monitor the police 24/7 and make sure what they're doing is just.
  - R0b0t1 5y ago
    > Doing stupid shit like that will only close their ranks and put a target on every law-abiding citizen's back as police become more paranoid than they already have been trained to be. We're already in this part. Closing ranks further is just showing people most police force's true colors. Everyone was willing to overlook police abuse as long as it was targeted against minorities but now the average person has had a direct negative experience or has some relative that was railroaded by the prosecution and a lying cop. > We should incentivize the reporting of criminal behavior by law enforcement officers and work to open everything to public scrutiny. This isn't working.
  - jfengel 5y ago
    I see targeting police as a really stupid, monumentally bad move since they are the only ones who can reliably identify the bad actors in their midst. But they don't. They do just the opposite. They get off the hook unless they are caught on video, and even then police and their supporters will make excuses. They spent decades digging this hole. They will not earn that trust back easily even if they stopped shooting people in their sleep tomorrow. Which they show no signs of. https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/592816-video-shows-police-fatally-shooting-black-man-while-serving-no-knock?amp https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/592816-video-shows-...
- steve76 5y ago
  [dead]
- quacked 5y ago
  > It's often the police targeting minorities that leads the minorities to ambush cops moreso than the direct desire to commit unpoliced crime (though after a certain amount time crime does move in if it wasn't already there). Have you ever lived among people who have committed deliberate violent crimes?

R0b0t1 5y ago

doodlebugging 5y ago
Your reply reads like a depressing commentary on the state of our society. I don't agree that we will see a time when police are targeted in their homes and if that ever happens it is likely to be a rare event. I agree with the part about our political mechanisms since so much of the process of making things work for everyone will require political action and compromises that are likely several years, though hopefully not generations, away. The first sentence of the last paragraph has likely always been true of any town or city. Then historically, townspeople who desire a stable existence with a rigid set of rules that apply to everyone will seek to install a lawman or peacekeeper. That lawman will be given responsibility for instilling order, enforcing the law, and detaining those engaging in criminal behavior so that the justice system can be used to determine their guilt or innocence and prescribe an appropriate penalty. Crime in one form or another has been a part of human existence for too many generations to count. Societies have their own mores and define their own set of behaviors that they endorse and that they will sanction. I see targeting police as a really stupid, monumentally bad move since they are the only ones who can reliably identify the bad actors in their midst. Doing stupid shit like that will only close their ranks and put a target on every law-abiding citizen's back as police become more paranoid than they already have been trained to be. We should incentivize the reporting of criminal behavior by law enforcement officers and work to open everything to public scrutiny. I don't know what that looks like technologically speaking but there should be tools in place to allow officers to report criminal behavior and the use of those tools should protect the officer reporting the crime since their own life may be at risk. No matter how much your local police suck, handing out lollipops to reward good cops will never be enough. We need tools that are easy to use, that satisfy the needs of the criminal justice system and enable effective prosecutions. The price of or penalty for non-compliance should be high enough that reporting is incentivized more than the current system of internal whitewashings or cover-ups.
- sodkmfkwegw 5y ago
  Your solution isn't going to work. No one really "polices the police", and LAPD literally has 18 different gangs within the department. This is why the push for body cameras is so strong- there is no other way than to monitor the police 24/7 and make sure what they're doing is just.
- R0b0t1 5y ago
  > Doing stupid shit like that will only close their ranks and put a target on every law-abiding citizen's back as police become more paranoid than they already have been trained to be. We're already in this part. Closing ranks further is just showing people most police force's true colors. Everyone was willing to overlook police abuse as long as it was targeted against minorities but now the average person has had a direct negative experience or has some relative that was railroaded by the prosecution and a lying cop. > We should incentivize the reporting of criminal behavior by law enforcement officers and work to open everything to public scrutiny. This isn't working.
- jfengel 5y ago
  I see targeting police as a really stupid, monumentally bad move since they are the only ones who can reliably identify the bad actors in their midst. But they don't. They do just the opposite. They get off the hook unless they are caught on video, and even then police and their supporters will make excuses. They spent decades digging this hole. They will not earn that trust back easily even if they stopped shooting people in their sleep tomorrow. Which they show no signs of. https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/592816-video-shows-police-fatally-shooting-black-man-while-serving-no-knock?amp https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/592816-video-shows-...
steve76 5y ago
[dead]
quacked 5y ago
> It's often the police targeting minorities that leads the minorities to ambush cops moreso than the direct desire to commit unpoliced crime (though after a certain amount time crime does move in if it wasn't already there). Have you ever lived among people who have committed deliberate violent crimes?