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Agree. It is a constant wonderment why Adobe is not called out ‘evil’ more often like its other SV brethren. They are not even good at software engineering and
by achow 5y ago
Agree. It is a constant wonderment why Adobe is not called out ‘evil’ more often like its other SV brethren.
They are not even good at software engineering and UX.
- NetOpWibby 5y agoThey used to be but then competitors sprang up so Adobe got less attention.
- tonyedgecombe 5y agoBack in the early days they were really good, I remember phoning about some PostScript problems I was having and whoever I spoke to clearly knew it inside out. Now I can't even get a response about obvious bugs in their software. It's not just Adobe though, this is an industry wide problem.
- bradleyjg 5y agoEvil is thrown around way to much. If you are going to use it for dishonest business practices what’s left for ISIS?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- toyg 5y agoA gradation of evil is still evil.
- bradleyjg 5y agoI love living in a time moral absolutism and self righteousness. Nothing better than having conversations with people that have zero doubts about the correctness of every single one of their many, many ethical positions and that anyone who disagrees is evil. Good times. If only I could have witnessed the Spanish Inquisition.
- rightbyte 5y agoIt is not a very ambiguous moral stand versus Adobe here.
- ironmagma 5y agoIronically, the point is that evil is relative and there are different scales of evil. That isn’t absolutism.
- imwillofficial 5y ago“moral absolutism” How dare people make judgement calls on actions they feel are morally wrong! Why, that’s like burning people at the stake!
- torstenvl 5y agoISIS' actions are far far worse, but most Daesh are motivated by the desperation of being a religious minority associated with a deposed dictator in a resource-constrained desert infected with religious fanaticism. Daesh's actions require a more drastic response, but I'm more confident that the average Adobe CSR, rather than the average drafted Sunni kid from Al Qaim, is going to hell.
- whimsicalism 5y ago> most Daesh are motivated by the desperation of being a religious minority associated with a deposed dictator in a resource-constrained desert infected with religious fanaticism. Eh, not really. They are pretty much all a religious majority in the regions they controlled and moreover Syria is pretty predominately Sunni.
- chiefalchemist 5y agoCommunications have context. To apply a word to Adobe (as a loose refernce to "Don't be evil.") and then say ISIS is evil, doesn't mean or even imply Adobe === ISIS. Context, it matters.
- bradleyjg 5y agoLet’s do literally evil next. That adjective doesn’t get nearly enough use.
- chiefalchemist 5y agoWell, blame Google. Knowing about historic references to Axis of Evil and such they should have left the word out of SV / start up lexicon. As it is, they didn't. The best the rest of us can do is further develop our capacity for context. https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Axis_of_evil https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Axis_of_evil
- tux3 5y agoThere's not a limited number of slots for who gets to be called evil. It's a threshold, not a competition. Sometimes the threshold changes, but crossing it is enough. No matter that other people might be even worse.
- bradleyjg 5y agoIndeed not. Contemporary society has infinite capacity for moral condemnation. Is black and white thinking considered a compliment now?
- RHSeeger 5y agoIt's not black and white thinking, it's a threshold, as stated. For an average income person - A Porsche is expensive - A Ferrari is expensive The fact that a Ferrari costs a lot more than a Porsche does not make a Porsche "not expensive", because there is a line (for the buyer) beyond which they consider a car expensive. There's problem a grey are below that line in which a car may cost more than they are comfortable spending, but have enough useful features that they will consider sacrificing for it. And there is a large area to the right of the expensive threshold where a lot of such cars lie. The fact that lots of cars are past the "expensive" threshold for someone doesn't mean they're thinking in black and white.
- renewiltord 5y agoThis is true. It’s a threshold. So sometimes when I think to myself “Should I be spending time fighting to ensure people are not dying at the hands of a fundamentalist religious organization or should I be spending my time lowering prices for a high end graphics editor?” I always try to remember that these are equivalent tasks. It doesn’t matter which I do. I am bringing the same amount of good to the world.
- tux3 5y agoPears are sweet. Yet Coca-Cola is sweeter. Both deserve the label, that doesn't mean some things can't be even sweeter than other. Similarly, there are shades of evil. Inventing some new greater evil does not invalidate the regular kind.
- whimsicalism 5y agoIf you're going to use evil for ISIS, what's left for the Nazis?
- suifbwish 5y agoIf you are going to use evil for the Nazis what’s left for the Romans?
- torstenvl 5y agoWhat have the Romans ever done for us?
- Rexxar 5y agoInform yourself on what happen to Yazidis recently and you will not do this sort of humor anymore.
- whimsicalism 5y agoWhat sort of humor? I'm showing the ridiculousness of the claim. The Nazis can be evil as well as ISIS.
- Rexxar 5y agoSorry if I misunderstand you but you could just say that it's ridiculous if you think it's ridiculous. I personally don't like there is comments with "isis" and "nazi" inside in a discussion about Adobe (and I don't specially like Adobe at all).
- chrissnell 5y agoYes. It’s all rooted in narcissism. Calling something “evil”, makes you a hero when you fight it, whether that means going on patrols in the streets of Raqqa or calling out a shitty SaaS pricing scheme on an internet bulletin board.
- imwillofficial 5y agoBad take. Calling something evil is a moral judgement and that’s it. I do t need to fight it, be a part of it, or hell, I could be evil myself. It’s a judgement call and nothing more. You may disagree with my moral standards, and that’s cool.
- Taywee 5y agoIt's an adjective. Adobe is bad. ISIS is bad. That doesn't equate the two (or imply that it's the same degree) any more than calling them evil is. Evil is just an adjective that means "deliberately very morally wrong". You could easily make the argument of ISIS being less evil than Adobe, given that many of them have conviction that they're doing the right thing, but Adobe couldn't possibly believe that this is anything but duplicitous, misleading, and scummy. Killing for religious beliefs is much more complex than simple "evil". Scamming your paying customers by intentionally misleading them with dark patterns is a very simple and obvious evil.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- imwillofficial 5y ago“Evil is thrown around way to much. If you are going to use it for dishonest business practices what’s left for ISIS?” I love captain crunch cereal. It is so good— “NOW I HAVE NO WORDS TO DESCRIBE CHARITIES!”
- Spooky23 5y agoThey aren’t evil, it’s just when companies move to subscription they turn into mini insurance companies focused on the spreadsheets. They model out your lifetime value and know that every $1 they chisel out of you is worth $1.40 in 5 years. They are brutal in the enterprise space, looking for 10-15% price escalations. They also turn over sales leadership so if you are big enough you can pull stunts for concessions. Just do some recon and figure out what they get paid the most on. Last time, we hired a few interns specifically to do a public PoC of how we were getting rid a key product in the portfolio. Made sure they heard about it and got significant confessions. Basically 10x the intern and PoC investment. We ended up hiring the interns as well for an extra bonus. As a consumer, you need to be really aware of the motivations of your suppliers business model and model your business accordingly. Understand your costs and use OSS strategically, or understand where you just need to take what they offer (ie AWS). Things in the middle, like Adobe in my case, you need to be ready to walk away or play chicken and make a deal at the 11th hour.
- ummonk 5y ago"it’s just when companies move to subscription they turn into mini insurance companies focused on the spreadsheets. They model out your lifetime value and know that every $1 they chisel out of you is worth $1.40 in 5 years." The term for that is "evil".
- marcosdumay 5y ago"Evil" is normally used for people that do worse actions than overbill their customers. "Fraudster" applies better here.
- lostcolony 5y agoNah, evil is fine. It's a low grade evil, sure, but it's still evil. To cite a lovely paragraph from Carpe Jugulum that feels appropriate - “There’s no greys, only white that’s got grubby. I’m surprised you don’t know that. And sin, young man, is when you treat people as things. Including yourself. That’s what sin is.’ ‘It’s a lot more complicated than that -’ ‘No. It ain’t. When people say things are a lot more complicated than that, they means they’re getting worried that they won’t like the truth. People as things, that’s where it starts.” ― Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum