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Seems pretty awful to suggest that the government-managed 'no-fly' list should be used for anything after watching how poorly it was used and abused as a securi
by trentnix 5y ago
Seems pretty awful to suggest that the government-managed 'no-fly' list should be used for anything after watching how poorly it was used and abused as a security measure. But considering the airlines look to the government to solve their financial problems, it's no surprise they would look to the government to solve their passenger problems as well. I assume begging for government intervention has become an airline CEO reflex, at this point.
Bureaucracy, security theater, and airline/airport ineptitude has turned flying into a painful, regrettable process. Add shrinking seat space and airport and airplane booze to the mix and you've got a recipe for stress, discomfort, and short tempers.
I suspect booze is actually the primary culprit. I've flown a few hundred flights in my time and only witnessed two, rather tame, incidents that caused people to be kicked off flights or caused in-air arguments. In one case the culprit was very drunk. The other case the culprit was very hung over.
- dijonman2 5y agoCocktails is one of the few things that make long flights bearable. Please, allow me that one comfort in an otherwise horrible and miserable process.
- bsagdiyev 5y agoAgreed, I have a pretty horrible panic attack that starts with the takeoff roll, eases a bit when we're in the air and will return with any turbulence. Alcohol helps this significantly.
- 300bps 5y agoI’m glad that helps but just wanted to point out that there are ways of dealing with anxiety and panic attacks that don’t involve self-medicating. Someone on HN many years ago recommended the book Learned Optimism saying that it changed their life. It did the same for me.
- bsagdiyev 5y agoI have a therapist and currently am medicated through a psychiatrist, she recommended breathing but also said if having a beer or two helps that she's not going to tell me not to do it. I can take a look and give that a read though.
- op00to 5y agoDrinking on a plane always seems like a great idea, but despite only having one or two I invariably feel worse after flights where I’ve drank than ones where I haven’t. Sometimes I wonder what it’s like to be one of those veteran, pickled business travelers that can pound the drinks.
- technothrasher 5y agoDrinking on a flight makes me feel like crap. It only makes my miserable experience worse. If I drank a lot on or before a flight, I’d be so grumpy I’d probably get kicked off too. But this is obviously not everybody’s experience, as I hear people say a lot that it’s the only way they can bear a flight.
- Aeolun 5y agoI’ve found that it makes absolutely no difference. Even flying first class, no difference. Flying is just miserable regardless of how you do it.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- thebigjewbowski 5y agoI love flying first class. The seats are just so much more comfortable. I can’t justify the extra $300-500+ per ticket for what is at most 5-6 hours though. I’ve only done it once but we sat on the runway for over an hour and I didn’t care at all. The other time I was on the runway for awhile I had to take a spirit or southwest flight and that was awful. I’m always so uncomfortable and I’m not even a big person, 5’11” and 200lbs. The only thing that has ever made a flight decent besides first class was taking etizolam and being knocked out the whole way through the flight.
- samatman 5y agoMy rule of thumb after flying is that I owe myself 500cc of water for each hour of flight time, and that's after drinking carry on water and the complementary (soft) drinks: flying itself is severely dehydrating, and hauling luggage around may be light exercise but I'll usually end up sweating at some point in it. Having two drinks on the flight just means another 500cc of water, but yeah, skip rehydration after flying and you're going to have a bad time. Add booze, it will be a worse time.
- dzhiurgis 5y agoGoing to be pretty hard to stop people bringing their own flasks of vodka or whiskey. I enjoy drinks too much on flights, would be better off without them. Also it's kinda public space, occasionally with little kids - I'd prefer them not to be around alcohol. Finally, having different areas of economy kinda solves this - half plane for young and ready to party, other half - for quiet and chill. Separate area for kids too. All of this is trivial to solve in booking software.
- dijonman2 5y ago> occasionally with little kids - I'd prefer them not to be around alcohol. It took me a moment to avoid the typical criticism of “think of the children”. This is the real world. People drink. People do drugs. People do a lot of things. In my opinion putting blinders on your kid is bad parenting. I really don’t care what kids see me do. Keep the drinks coming for me!
- ransom1538 5y agoIt is the DRINKS BEFORE boarding that is the issue. The tacky bars slinging full bars and specials pushing you to load up before the flight - 10ft from the boarding gate. Having a cocktail ON the flight IMHO is "ok" - stewardesses will monitor and cut off. However, those tacky bars will let you have 6 hard drinks before board. You mix people with high flight anxiety, preboard boredom and pushy bars: a flight mess.
- sandworm101 5y agoAnd various prescription drugs. Between the stress of flying, especially the lack of sleep, the plentiful alcohol, the various drugs people take (ambien), and the entire security theater thing, I am suprised there isnt an arrest on every flight.
- ransom1538 5y agolol. Downvotes. Fine keep feeding drinks to people preboard. Makes the flight fun.
- porknubbins 5y agoHigh flight anxiety or drinking too much are not excuses for being disruptive on a flight. I’d bet there is some underlying personality disorder. Ban the people and let the 99% who can consume without bothering anyone do so.
- aasjdfiaspud 5y agoIsn't advocating for this just the same as setting up US's own social score?
- trentnix 5y agoAre you arguing with me? You must be argumentative. I'll bet you go to school board meetings. That makes you more likely to cause an incident on the plane. You must go on the list. Expect a visit from CPS to check on the welfare of your children. They may be in danger. /s
- Schroedingersat 5y agoThey already have one, it's called a credit score
- sgjohnson 5y agoPretty delusional to compare credit score with the Chinese social credit score.
- OldManAndTheCpp 5y agoLooking at https://socialcredit.triviumchina.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Understanding-Chinas-Social-Credit-System-Trivium-China-20190923.pdf https://socialcredit.triviumchina.com/wp-content/uploads/201... , pg 11 with a table of information collected on individuals. These categories are collected by a US credit score: * BASIC IDENTITY INFORMATION * FINANCIAL INFORMATION These categories are collected by a US background check: * EMPLOYMENT INFORMATION * LEGAL HISTORY * REGULATORY AND LEGAL VIOLATIONS These categories are unique to the Social Credit Score system: * POLITICAL DATA * CIVIC BEHAVIOR * OUTSTANDING ACHIEVEMENT RECORDS So, about 2/3rds of the data is very similar to the data that employers gather about their employees, and 1/3rd is the overbearing Chinese state. To me, the political stuff seems to make the economic usefulness of the score weaker -- does being a member of the CPC really reduce your default risk on your credit card? Looking at the list of infractions that reduce points, it seems that China is trying to systematize punishment for social problems by restricting access to credit. I went into this comment thinking that the US credit score system and the SCS system were similar, but I leave thinking that the Chinese one is the same as the US one, with a bolt on authoritarian layer.
- bezospen15 5y agoA few hundred flights? Your carbon footprint is trash
- mlac 5y ago10 round trips per year over five years? Or five round trips per year over 10 years? If each had a connection, it would only be 5 trips per year (4 flights each trip) for five years.
- shirly88 5y agoAnd it’s the species obligation to insure that’s doable because a minority of meat bags were told “why not them?” all their lives
- shirly88 5y agoGovernment is humans chasing power. Why should I believe the airlines are anymore capable given that’s all they are. It all turns into a cycle of manipulation to get ahead because that’s how our feudal trade memes work. I don’t believe any of you are doing anything truly novel and useful; y’all are just playing the Rules of Acquisition.
- codecutter 5y agoInstead of asking government to have no-fly list, what doesn't each airline have its own list? They are private businesses and should be able to decide their customers, just like customers can refuse to do business with certain companies.
- _0ffh 5y agoJust what I thought! When someone's a sufficiently bloody nuisance, ban them from the airline for some time. What is it with people who think everything must be done by gov't?
- dkubb 5y agoAlso, why don't they share the lists with each other? They don't need government help to do this. If there are privacy issues then they could just share a list of hashes and if someone's legal name hashes to something on the list then you deny them.
- rafale 5y agoIn pure HN comment degeneracy: they could then claim to be victim of a hash collision and you won't be able to prove it while maintaining privacy. Also a hash doesn't provide privacy in itself. It just make enumerating people in the database more difficult.
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago> what doesn't each airline have its own list? They do.
- jacobr1 5y agoThey already do have their own lists. The request has more to do with getting legal cover.
- Handytinge 5y agoWhat legal cover do they require? They're private companies, surely they can refuse service?
- neither_color 5y agoBooze is not served in economy class, only business/first passengers get booze on American flights.
- gpanders 5y agoThis is not true, I was on a flight in economy just yesterday where passengers were allowed to purchase alcohol.
- neither_color 5y agoI stand corrected, many major airlines have stopped serving alcohol, but not all of them. I took 3 round trip American flights last year and that had been my observation: https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/american-airlines-no-alcohol-until-2022/index.html https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/american-airlines-no-alco...
- patch_cable 5y agoIs that a new thing during the pandemic? Because booze in the economy section was definitely a thing before.