5 ms·

You’d think that a demonstrated history of violence to air crew (for a sufficient definition of violence) would be a stronger reason than potential violence. Bu

You’d think that a demonstrated history of violence to air crew (for a sufficient definition of violence) would be a stronger reason than potential violence. But the no-fly list is sort of like the felony lifetime forfeiture of constitional rights, so it would seem that felonies as opposed to misdemeanors would be the minimum bar.

SteveNuts 5y ago
Why can't Delta just make their own list, they're a private company can't they refuse service to anyone they choose?
- humanwhosits 5y ago
  They do, they're advocating for a shared list
  - mlindner 5y ago
    No they're advocating for a government mandated shared list. They don't want a competing airline to be able to advertise that they'll fly those who other airlines won't fly. Completely different thing. They could create a shared list if they wanted to.
    - quantified 5y ago
      I have no patience or sympathy for those causing the issue to be raised. Add this reasonable-sounding rule, it will make things worse for everyone else.
- bronco21016 5y ago
  They do. And so does United, SWA, AA, etc. The thought process is that an unruly passenger on United, for example, should be banned from all airlines and air lines so they can’t go cause trouble elsewhere. I think the airlines are asking the government to step in because they’re not sure they can legally work together to ban people from all air travel. I believe a government process is the correct answer here but only with due process and guard rails.
  - imroot 5y ago
    They share common reservations systems, so, it wouldn't surprise me if SABRE or another GDS shares no-fly lists. I seem to recall that American, United, and Delta all use/implement Sabre in some form or another, and possibly shared a no-fly/ban list...but, my memory is a bit hazy on that.
  - quantified 5y ago
    Right, cartel-like denial of service behavior raises real issues. Suppose all payment systems, or Facebook, Tiktok, and Substack together decided on deplatforming alliances?
    - zionic 5y ago
      Oh just you wait, someone is gonna try it. “CommonBan” will try to aggregate bans across huge swaths of disparate entities one day.
      - bitwize 5y ago
        The head of Microsoft's Xbox division is urging Sony and Nintendo to ban players that Microsoft deems ban-worthy. I won't be surprised if entire industries have Shinigami Eyes style blacklists of people considered too toxic to be allowed any kind of business involving whatever that industry provides within a decade or so.
    - ryandrake 5y ago
      In the event that an airline-shared no-fly list takes hold: In a free market, anyone is free to start an alternative airline that ignores the shared no-fly list. I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to think about how that airline's average passenger will behave. You could call it ParlerAir.
  - ClumsyPilot 5y ago
    And if a company put you on that list by mistake or plain lies, what is tour recourse and how much compensation do they owe you? Which neutral party will listen to your side of the story?
- cat_plus_plus 5y ago
  If they use publicly owned airports, conditions under which passengers are denied boarding can be reasonably regulated to for example not be "wrote a negative Yelp review"
- bsder 5y ago
  Or why don't they just, you know, prosecute these people for what is a federal felony with laws that already exist. The problem, of course, is that these people are most likely to be the kind of entitled dipshits that will make negative press for you. Oh, and don't get me started about how airline flight attendants have to pay their own legal bills in a startling number of conditions.
- mrobins 5y ago
  I think part of the larger challenge here is that the laws put the responsibility for enforcement on airlines. Flight attendants didn’t sign up and aren’t trained to be law enforcement officers. More stringent, wider ranging consequences add teeth to FA authority and more importantly would prevent some people from challenging the rules in the first place.
dkjaudyeqooe 5y ago
There's nothing stopping the relevant authorities setting the length of the ban based on severity and repeat offence.
- quantified 5y ago
  Right, that would not be the same no-fly list concept though.
wljlkjljlwef 5y ago

SteveNuts 5y ago

Why can't Delta just make their own list, they're a private company can't they refuse service to anyone they choose?

humanwhosits 5y ago
They do, they're advocating for a shared list
- mlindner 5y ago
  No they're advocating for a government mandated shared list. They don't want a competing airline to be able to advertise that they'll fly those who other airlines won't fly. Completely different thing. They could create a shared list if they wanted to.
  - quantified 5y ago
    I have no patience or sympathy for those causing the issue to be raised. Add this reasonable-sounding rule, it will make things worse for everyone else.
bronco21016 5y ago
They do. And so does United, SWA, AA, etc. The thought process is that an unruly passenger on United, for example, should be banned from all airlines and air lines so they can’t go cause trouble elsewhere. I think the airlines are asking the government to step in because they’re not sure they can legally work together to ban people from all air travel. I believe a government process is the correct answer here but only with due process and guard rails.
- imroot 5y ago
  They share common reservations systems, so, it wouldn't surprise me if SABRE or another GDS shares no-fly lists. I seem to recall that American, United, and Delta all use/implement Sabre in some form or another, and possibly shared a no-fly/ban list...but, my memory is a bit hazy on that.
- quantified 5y ago
  Right, cartel-like denial of service behavior raises real issues. Suppose all payment systems, or Facebook, Tiktok, and Substack together decided on deplatforming alliances?
  - zionic 5y ago
    Oh just you wait, someone is gonna try it. “CommonBan” will try to aggregate bans across huge swaths of disparate entities one day.
    - bitwize 5y ago
      The head of Microsoft's Xbox division is urging Sony and Nintendo to ban players that Microsoft deems ban-worthy. I won't be surprised if entire industries have Shinigami Eyes style blacklists of people considered too toxic to be allowed any kind of business involving whatever that industry provides within a decade or so.
  - ryandrake 5y ago
    In the event that an airline-shared no-fly list takes hold: In a free market, anyone is free to start an alternative airline that ignores the shared no-fly list. I'll leave it as an exercise to the reader to think about how that airline's average passenger will behave. You could call it ParlerAir.
- ClumsyPilot 5y ago
  And if a company put you on that list by mistake or plain lies, what is tour recourse and how much compensation do they owe you? Which neutral party will listen to your side of the story?
cat_plus_plus 5y ago
If they use publicly owned airports, conditions under which passengers are denied boarding can be reasonably regulated to for example not be "wrote a negative Yelp review"
bsder 5y ago
Or why don't they just, you know, prosecute these people for what is a federal felony with laws that already exist. The problem, of course, is that these people are most likely to be the kind of entitled dipshits that will make negative press for you. Oh, and don't get me started about how airline flight attendants have to pay their own legal bills in a startling number of conditions.
mrobins 5y ago
I think part of the larger challenge here is that the laws put the responsibility for enforcement on airlines. Flight attendants didn’t sign up and aren’t trained to be law enforcement officers. More stringent, wider ranging consequences add teeth to FA authority and more importantly would prevent some people from challenging the rules in the first place.

dkjaudyeqooe 5y ago

There's nothing stopping the relevant authorities setting the length of the ban based on severity and repeat offence.

quantified 5y ago
Right, that would not be the same no-fly list concept though.

wljlkjljlwef 5y ago