6 ms·

Google gives execs raises after declining to boost employees' pay

105 points by johncena33 5y ago

nahnahno 5y ago
- tdhoot 5y ago
  > worst inflationary periods in 100 years I don't completely disagree with you, but c'mon this is hyperbole, right? https://advisor.visualcapitalist.com/inflation-over-last-100-years/ https://advisor.visualcapitalist.com/inflation-over-last-100...
  - wutbrodo 5y ago
    There's something hilarious about nitpicking a statistic out of a comment that's nothing but an unhinged rant.
- specto 5y ago
  Same at the company I work for, so this seems to be normal for publicly traded companies.
- ramphastidae 5y ago
  Is it really disgusting? Google stock rose 65% in 2021. Unless you are working at the cafeteria, the recent inflation had little impact on the compensation of Google employees.
  - kevingadd 5y ago
    Do TVCs get stock? Most or all of the big silicon valley corps employ a ton of temps, contractors etc.
    - mrandish 5y ago
      > Do TVCs get stock? Since they actually work for the contracting or temp company and not the contracting customer of that company, the arrangement doesn't generally include equity, profit-sharing and other benefits from the contracting company. However, the employee of the temp or contracting company might be able to negotiate equity, profit-sharing or other benefits from their employer if their market value is sufficiently high. It all depends on the arrangement the employee makes with their employer and that is usually driven by how in-demand, rare and proven the particular employee's skills are. I've found it valuable to have the flexibility to choose whether I want to be an employee or a contractor depending on the market, company and my goals at the time. Over the decades I've experienced the upside and the downside of being an employee working alongside contractors who were taking home substantially more per day than I was but not getting equity. Sometimes my options ended up being nearly worthless and other times it worked out extremely well. Conversely, at other times I've been a short-term contractor able to negotiate fantastic weekly take-home pay. Sometimes that worked out very well and other times it would've been even better for me to have taken the job offer and been an equity employee. But I would have had to stay three or four years to vest, sacrificing the flexibility to pick my assignments, location and schedule. Having experienced all sides of this, I've found the determining factor isn't really the choice of compensation model. What matters most is developing unique skills and being able to consistently deliver tangible value. How I choose to monetize my value is up to me and, like any investment, I get to 'pick my poison' and live with the consequences. Barring random luck, increased certainty and immediacy of minimum guaranteed compensation tends to come at the cost of potential maximum upside.
  - KeepFlying 5y ago
    Depends on how much of comp is based on stock, and how much of that is based stock awards that don't vest immediately/quickly. Its likely that a lot of employees are selling stock asap and wouldn't get to realize all that growth.
    - xyzzyz 5y ago
      The employees have a lot of unvested stock most of the time, so they very much get to benefit from the stock price growth.
      - echelon 5y ago
        To counter this, they also suffer lockout periods. Employees typically have a short amount of time to figure out their strategy before being stuck for two months or longer. Employees only get to plan in the macro. They can go long or short, not respond to real economic events, opportunities, or headwinds.
        xyzzyz 5y ago
        So do the execs, for what it’s worth, who not only suffer from lockdowns, but also often are legally required to announce their trades in advance. Frankly, I never found lockdowns to be really onerous at all. You can’t really time the market anyway.
        refurb 5y ago
        Lockouts apply to every employee, including executives.
        birken 5y ago
        Having multiple windows each year to sell your stock/options at fair market prices is a luxury that very, very few people working at startups gets. This is a ridiculous thing to complain about. For the vast majority of people having 4 trading windows per year is more than enough to adjust their portfolio based on their financial strategy.
        5y ago
  - marricks 5y ago
    So by that logic execs certainly didn't need an increase in salary?
    - refurb 5y ago
      Did they get a salary increase? Or did their equity just go up like everyone else? Executives tend to have salaries that are a fraction of total comp.
      - jjulius 5y ago
        I mean, it's literally the second sentence of the article we're discussing... >The Mountain View, CA-based company will be raising the salaries of four execs from $650,000 to $1 million...
        refurb 5y ago
        Sure, but "They also received stock awards valued at between $23 million and $35 million, split between performance-based equity and stock that vests over time, the filing states.". That $350,000 doesn't even move the needle? Why is the focus there?
        thereare5lights 5y ago
        This is the thread I'm reading context: other1: > That’s disgusting. These 4 execs made order 200M in 2020, Google took in 130B in quarterly revenue in q4. and they have the steel procreators to tell their employees about how they can’t give quality of life adjustments during on of the worst inflationary periods in 100 years. Fuck google with a pointy stick. other2: > Is it really disgusting? Google stock rose 65% in 2021. Unless you are working at the cafeteria, the recent inflation had little impact on the compensation of Google employees. other3: > So by that logic execs certainly didn't need an increase in salary? you: > Did they get a salary increase? Or did their equity just go up like everyone else? > Executives tend to have salaries that are a fraction of total comp. other4: > I mean, it's literally the second sentence of the article we're discussing... > >The Mountain View, CA-based company will be raising the salaries of four execs from $650,000 to $1 million... you: > Sure, but "They also received stock awards valued at between $23 million and $35 million, split between performance-based equity and stock that vests over time, the filing states.". > That $350,000 doesn't even move the needle? Why is the focus there? So this thread starts off with criticizing Google over not giving COL adjustments in a terrible period of inflation given their massive profits. Someone says the stock gains negate the impact of inflation. Someone else says if stock increases were sufficient, then why did execs need a salary bump. You asked if they got a salary increase. Someone else points out that they did. You then point out they got lots of stock. And then say that their salary increase barely moves the needle so why focus there? The point seems to have been lost here. To go back to the original point, the point was that Google denied their employees COL adjustments. If giving their execs salary bumps didn't even move the needle for them, then why give it to them especially when they denied their other employees COL adjustments despite having massive profits?
  - chii 5y ago
    stock grants are given by dollar amounts, rather than by units - so if the stock price grew, you'd get fewer stock units! Of course, while waiting on the vesting period, they grow, but those grants were made a while ago - contingent on your employment - which means the growth is part of the expectation of the compensation. After all, the stock _could_ drop during that period too, and you don't get extra cash compensation to, well, compensate. Therefore, you cannot use the stock price growth to argue that they don't need inflationary wage adjustments.
  - ggm 5y ago
    Am I to understand that the minions who clean toilets and garden and serve food continue to be outsourced so Mr Google can say it doesn't exploit its workforce? Mountain View paradise has an underclass?
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't fulminate on HN. That's in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. You may not owe steel procreators better, but you owe this community better if you're participating in it. We're trying for curious conversation here.
jedberg 5y ago
They didn't decline to boost employee pay -- they declined to make an across the board COL adjustment. Instead they will build the COL adjustment into each person's annual raise along with a performance bonus. You're only hearing about these guys because they are required to report it in their SEC filings.
- alisonkisk 5y ago
- hyperhopper 5y ago
  But they did not make a inflation adjusted increase to each employee, so you're just dodging the point. The increase didn't happen. They declined to boost employee pay Yeah, maybe the top 5% got bigger increases, but that's not whats being discussed
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    Google gives regular raises and the raise curves were considerably higher this year than prior years. "Index raises to inflation" would mean lower pay for engineers here.
- KeepFlying 5y ago
  I'm not sure the exact breakdown of their rewards, but baking a COL adjustment and a merit increase in a single number doesn't really count. Makes it way too easy to reduce pay increases.
  - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
    I have a fear that my team where I work is going to go through more attrition this year because of a similar philosophy. We didn't get merit or COL increases last year, and I doubt they're gonna wanna go more than a few percent on COL this year. That's a huge effective pay cut.
  - nostrademons 5y ago
hexo 5y ago
So the company went from user-hostile to employee-hostile. Congratulations.
- zingplex 5y ago
  They're still a user-hostile company as well
- monkeybutton 5y ago
  Regression towards the mean of corporate America. The first couple decades were extraordinary but it wasn't going to last.
- tasha0663 5y ago
  I think its just run by AM at this point. "Don't be evil" is now "HATE."
neilv 5y ago
I don't think this will prompt a lot of computer programmers at Google to move to a company that pays better.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
endisneigh 5y ago
Haven’t companies been doing this for literally centuries? It sucks, but it seems that it is what it is. Fortunately people can vote with their feet and googlers in particular are likely to be able to get a pay increase by switching jobs. Short of a straight up profit share it doesn’t seem like there’s a reliable way to guarantee pay increases - stock is a decent hedge but then you can have 80% drops in a year like Peloton.
sjtindell 5y ago
Google is literally a money printer. They could all go on vacation and the thing would run itself. The fact that they will pay execs these sums to do nothing but start and kill yet another useless side product is embarrassing.
meristohm 5y ago
Who is doing anything worth more than a living wage (some amount that meets basic needs where they live, plus some buffer) independent of all the infrastructure built with the know-how, sweat, and blood of others?
lokar 5y ago
Google has never given standard yearly raises. You get a raise when you are promoted or when the market reference goes up.
mensetmanusman 5y ago
If our executives didn’t make millions and millions of dollars, how could they possibly lead us?
atbpaca 5y ago
Sundar Pichai has just updated Google's mantra: "Don't be evil, be greedy!"
- refurb 5y ago
pts_ 5y ago
Victims not employees, of extortion.

105 points by johncena33 5y ago

tdhoot 5y ago
> worst inflationary periods in 100 years I don't completely disagree with you, but c'mon this is hyperbole, right? https://advisor.visualcapitalist.com/inflation-over-last-100-years/ https://advisor.visualcapitalist.com/inflation-over-last-100...
- wutbrodo 5y ago
  There's something hilarious about nitpicking a statistic out of a comment that's nothing but an unhinged rant.
specto 5y ago
Same at the company I work for, so this seems to be normal for publicly traded companies.
ramphastidae 5y ago
Is it really disgusting? Google stock rose 65% in 2021. Unless you are working at the cafeteria, the recent inflation had little impact on the compensation of Google employees.
- kevingadd 5y ago
  Do TVCs get stock? Most or all of the big silicon valley corps employ a ton of temps, contractors etc.
  - mrandish 5y ago
    > Do TVCs get stock? Since they actually work for the contracting or temp company and not the contracting customer of that company, the arrangement doesn't generally include equity, profit-sharing and other benefits from the contracting company. However, the employee of the temp or contracting company might be able to negotiate equity, profit-sharing or other benefits from their employer if their market value is sufficiently high. It all depends on the arrangement the employee makes with their employer and that is usually driven by how in-demand, rare and proven the particular employee's skills are. I've found it valuable to have the flexibility to choose whether I want to be an employee or a contractor depending on the market, company and my goals at the time. Over the decades I've experienced the upside and the downside of being an employee working alongside contractors who were taking home substantially more per day than I was but not getting equity. Sometimes my options ended up being nearly worthless and other times it worked out extremely well. Conversely, at other times I've been a short-term contractor able to negotiate fantastic weekly take-home pay. Sometimes that worked out very well and other times it would've been even better for me to have taken the job offer and been an equity employee. But I would have had to stay three or four years to vest, sacrificing the flexibility to pick my assignments, location and schedule. Having experienced all sides of this, I've found the determining factor isn't really the choice of compensation model. What matters most is developing unique skills and being able to consistently deliver tangible value. How I choose to monetize my value is up to me and, like any investment, I get to 'pick my poison' and live with the consequences. Barring random luck, increased certainty and immediacy of minimum guaranteed compensation tends to come at the cost of potential maximum upside.
- KeepFlying 5y ago
  Depends on how much of comp is based on stock, and how much of that is based stock awards that don't vest immediately/quickly. Its likely that a lot of employees are selling stock asap and wouldn't get to realize all that growth.
  - xyzzyz 5y ago
    The employees have a lot of unvested stock most of the time, so they very much get to benefit from the stock price growth.
    - echelon 5y ago
      To counter this, they also suffer lockout periods. Employees typically have a short amount of time to figure out their strategy before being stuck for two months or longer. Employees only get to plan in the macro. They can go long or short, not respond to real economic events, opportunities, or headwinds.
      - xyzzyz 5y ago
        So do the execs, for what it’s worth, who not only suffer from lockdowns, but also often are legally required to announce their trades in advance. Frankly, I never found lockdowns to be really onerous at all. You can’t really time the market anyway.
      - refurb 5y ago
        Lockouts apply to every employee, including executives.
      - birken 5y ago
        Having multiple windows each year to sell your stock/options at fair market prices is a luxury that very, very few people working at startups gets. This is a ridiculous thing to complain about. For the vast majority of people having 4 trading windows per year is more than enough to adjust their portfolio based on their financial strategy.
      - 5y ago
- marricks 5y ago
  So by that logic execs certainly didn't need an increase in salary?
  - refurb 5y ago
    Did they get a salary increase? Or did their equity just go up like everyone else? Executives tend to have salaries that are a fraction of total comp.
    - jjulius 5y ago
      I mean, it's literally the second sentence of the article we're discussing... >The Mountain View, CA-based company will be raising the salaries of four execs from $650,000 to $1 million...
      - refurb 5y ago
        Sure, but "They also received stock awards valued at between $23 million and $35 million, split between performance-based equity and stock that vests over time, the filing states.". That $350,000 doesn't even move the needle? Why is the focus there?
        thereare5lights 5y ago
        This is the thread I'm reading context: other1: > That’s disgusting. These 4 execs made order 200M in 2020, Google took in 130B in quarterly revenue in q4. and they have the steel procreators to tell their employees about how they can’t give quality of life adjustments during on of the worst inflationary periods in 100 years. Fuck google with a pointy stick. other2: > Is it really disgusting? Google stock rose 65% in 2021. Unless you are working at the cafeteria, the recent inflation had little impact on the compensation of Google employees. other3: > So by that logic execs certainly didn't need an increase in salary? you: > Did they get a salary increase? Or did their equity just go up like everyone else? > Executives tend to have salaries that are a fraction of total comp. other4: > I mean, it's literally the second sentence of the article we're discussing... > >The Mountain View, CA-based company will be raising the salaries of four execs from $650,000 to $1 million... you: > Sure, but "They also received stock awards valued at between $23 million and $35 million, split between performance-based equity and stock that vests over time, the filing states.". > That $350,000 doesn't even move the needle? Why is the focus there? So this thread starts off with criticizing Google over not giving COL adjustments in a terrible period of inflation given their massive profits. Someone says the stock gains negate the impact of inflation. Someone else says if stock increases were sufficient, then why did execs need a salary bump. You asked if they got a salary increase. Someone else points out that they did. You then point out they got lots of stock. And then say that their salary increase barely moves the needle so why focus there? The point seems to have been lost here. To go back to the original point, the point was that Google denied their employees COL adjustments. If giving their execs salary bumps didn't even move the needle for them, then why give it to them especially when they denied their other employees COL adjustments despite having massive profits?
- chii 5y ago
  stock grants are given by dollar amounts, rather than by units - so if the stock price grew, you'd get fewer stock units! Of course, while waiting on the vesting period, they grow, but those grants were made a while ago - contingent on your employment - which means the growth is part of the expectation of the compensation. After all, the stock _could_ drop during that period too, and you don't get extra cash compensation to, well, compensate. Therefore, you cannot use the stock price growth to argue that they don't need inflationary wage adjustments.
- ggm 5y ago
  Am I to understand that the minions who clean toilets and garden and serve food continue to be outsourced so Mr Google can say it doesn't exploit its workforce? Mountain View paradise has an underclass?
dang 5y ago
Please don't fulminate on HN. That's in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. You may not owe steel procreators better, but you owe this community better if you're participating in it. We're trying for curious conversation here.

They didn't decline to boost employee pay -- they declined to make an across the board COL adjustment. Instead they will build the COL adjustment into each person's annual raise along with a performance bonus. You're only hearing about these guys because they are required to report it in their SEC filings.

alisonkisk 5y ago
hyperhopper 5y ago
But they did not make a inflation adjusted increase to each employee, so you're just dodging the point. The increase didn't happen. They declined to boost employee pay Yeah, maybe the top 5% got bigger increases, but that's not whats being discussed
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  Google gives regular raises and the raise curves were considerably higher this year than prior years. "Index raises to inflation" would mean lower pay for engineers here.
KeepFlying 5y ago
I'm not sure the exact breakdown of their rewards, but baking a COL adjustment and a merit increase in a single number doesn't really count. Makes it way too easy to reduce pay increases.
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  I have a fear that my team where I work is going to go through more attrition this year because of a similar philosophy. We didn't get merit or COL increases last year, and I doubt they're gonna wanna go more than a few percent on COL this year. That's a huge effective pay cut.
- nostrademons 5y ago

hexo 5y ago

So the company went from user-hostile to employee-hostile. Congratulations.

zingplex 5y ago
They're still a user-hostile company as well
monkeybutton 5y ago
Regression towards the mean of corporate America. The first couple decades were extraordinary but it wasn't going to last.
tasha0663 5y ago
I think its just run by AM at this point. "Don't be evil" is now "HATE."

neilv 5y ago

I don't think this will prompt a lot of computer programmers at Google to move to a company that pays better.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

endisneigh 5y ago

Haven’t companies been doing this for literally centuries? It sucks, but it seems that it is what it is. Fortunately people can vote with their feet and googlers in particular are likely to be able to get a pay increase by switching jobs. Short of a straight up profit share it doesn’t seem like there’s a reliable way to guarantee pay increases - stock is a decent hedge but then you can have 80% drops in a year like Peloton.

sjtindell 5y ago

Google is literally a money printer. They could all go on vacation and the thing would run itself. The fact that they will pay execs these sums to do nothing but start and kill yet another useless side product is embarrassing.

meristohm 5y ago

Who is doing anything worth more than a living wage (some amount that meets basic needs where they live, plus some buffer) independent of all the infrastructure built with the know-how, sweat, and blood of others?

lokar 5y ago

Google has never given standard yearly raises. You get a raise when you are promoted or when the market reference goes up.

mensetmanusman 5y ago

If our executives didn’t make millions and millions of dollars, how could they possibly lead us?

atbpaca 5y ago

Sundar Pichai has just updated Google's mantra: "Don't be evil, be greedy!"

refurb 5y ago

pts_ 5y ago

Victims not employees, of extortion.