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Cassowary – Run Windows Apps on Linux using a VM as if they were native apps
- indigodaddy 5y agoHow can you call this “native” when it’s just an RDP window, even if made to look native, it’s not really the right description is it?
- crazypython 5y agoDoes anyone know something like this except for running Android apps on Linux with a similar level of integration?
- timetraveller26 5y agoAnbox https://anbox.io/ https://anbox.io/
- pdenton 5y agoWaydroid https://waydro.id/ https://waydro.id/
- seltzered_ 5y agoSee also: https://github.com/Fmstrat/winapps https://github.com/Fmstrat/winapps - windows apps on linux (vm -> rdp)
- nicoty 5y agoHow are they different?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- seltzered_ 5y agonot exactly sure, but... "They work in similar way but this this project has features that could not be added easily into winapps. It also aims to add more features while being easy to setup and use !" https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/skmh28/i_made_an_application_to_run_windows_apps_on/hvlvxnv/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/skmh28/i_made_an_app...
- oogetyboogety 5y agoThere is more after that as well in the linked thread. `It can auto suspend vm automatically when no apps are used. ( i have it set to 30 s ). My college uses a windows only application for tests and assignments. If i was using winapps i would have to install libre office in windows vm just to be able to quickly open document sent to me. With cassowary i can just double click file in guest and it will use linux native libre office to open the document. ( Saves storage space ) Winapps only works with VM cannot connect to Bare metal windows` Instead of constantly rebooting my dual boot system this seems like an interesting approach for me to try. I need to play games in Windows without having to reboot from Linux.
- drocer88 5y agoNot to be confused with Cassowary: an incremental constraint solving toolkit that efficiently solves systems of linear equalities and inequalities. ( https://constraints.cs.washington.edu/cassowary/ https://constraints.cs.washington.edu/cassowary/ )
- chadcmulligan 5y agoI've been trying to remember the name of this for ages - I thought it was patented at one stage though, would you know if thats true? I can't seem to find the patent.
- keithnz 5y agomore important not to confuse it with the bird, which will kill you.
- stavros 5y agoIssue body: Instructions were unclear, tried to run repo and was instead killed by a bird.
- NegativeLatency 5y agoAnd the bird has the lowest frequency song of all birds
- obert 5y agoisn’t it a plant?
- TheBozzCL 5y agoIt's basically a dinosaur. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassowary https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassowary
- Andrew_nenakhov 5y agoFrom what I understand, all birds are basically dinosaurs.
- stirlo 5y agoLooks very cool, what's the underlying technology that makes it work? Does it need a licensed windows install in a VM to run the apps?
- FastEatSlow 5y agoYes, it's a VM that's connected to with RDP and configured with to appear seamless. The docs directory on the GitHub specifies exactly the setup needed.
- prox 5y agoDoes this allow to run complex programs that use GPU like Photoshop or Affinity Photo?
- FastEatSlow 5y ago3D acceleration should be enabled in the VM, so yes, but likely not very well as virtualization often does.
- encryptluks2 5y ago3d acceleration in what capacity? Only Intel has/had the ability to run virtual graphics natively. Otherwise you have to use passthrough.
- zamadatix 5y agoThere are also unlocker methods for Nvidia vGPU functionality these days or, as the setup guide states, you can use VMware as the backend which has a paravirtual GPU with a Windows driver.
- flatiron 5y agoHonestly if you are running gpu tasks on photoshop you have to dual boot as I assume it’s professional.
- prox 5y agoYeah it is, and I can already dual boot, but not having native pro graphics application on Linux is what stops me from complete switching over. Affinity Photo (and Designer and Publisher) and Photoshop are the only real options here.
- ComputerGuru 5y agoThis is basically the inverse of WSL2, which I personally think makes it a much better proposition for the bulk of truly techie WSL users.
- Tenoke 5y agoIf you are using wsl because of heavy windows programs typically like games then I guarantee this won't work as well as a wsl setup. It is cool but it doesn't seem like enough for me to move away from wsl (which I'd like to do if there was true and simple 'reverse wsl')
- encryptluks2 5y agoLook into Intel GVT-G... Otherwise your best bet is Wine.
- Tenoke 5y agoI've used wine (typically via playonlinix in recent years) but it's hit and miss. Online games aren't always happy with it (especially with cheat detection), performance is sometimes worse (especially on older hardware) and sometimes you can make it work but only if you spend a few hours fixing things. The best way to do it is to have a seperate GPU that you pass through fully to the Windows VM - a friend has that setup - which works perfectly but then you can't use that gpu in Linux and I don't particularly think it's worth it for me to have multiple GPUs when wsl gives me 99% of what I want with minimal setup.
- metadat 5y agoPassthrough-capable video cards aren't cheap or that easy to find and actually get working properly. It's 100% a nice dream, but no single major virtualization vendor supports it for desktop purposes intentionally. It's looking like for the foreseeable future it'll continue to be an expensive and royal pain in the behind. Of course, YMMV, I recall seeing that linus derp tech guy YouTube make it work one time. Good luck keeping it working properly in the long haul. I feel I've already learned this the hard way, have several spare Supermicro servers to show for the result of what I consider to be a failed project. Instead, I maintain a separate windows-only machine for such occasions. Takes up very little extra space or time. Would love to hear from other folks who use this on the daily.
- GhettoComputers 5y agoDoes anyone else get confused by "apps" and "executables"? This one uses the term "Windows Apps" for ".exe" files, I wondered why anyone would want to run a Windows App https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/windows https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/apps/windows I don't understand how its better than VM, it says run them like they're native, but its separate windows for single applications, I thought it would use something like WINE. It should be called "A Windows VM for executables in Linux with native windowing" unless I didn't understand it.
- p_j_w 5y agoThe word "app" has changed in common usage. Most any program you ran on your computer was called an Application way back when, but now it's come to mean... whatever it's supposed to mean now. Whoever wrote the Github site is probably old like me and is using the old vocabulary.
- FpUser 5y agoI am an old fart but I am starting to use "app" for windows executables as this is what many of my clients "understand" better.
- weikju 5y agoBefore Apple's App Store popularized a specific meaning of "app", "app" was shorthand for "application", which perfectly fits a .exe file and any number of executable files/formats.
- shaicoleman 5y agoI had to shorten it to apps to fit the title length limit
- jimmygrapes 5y agoI struggled with this a lot because of experience with Java applets which implied they were "small apps" which implied "app" meant something... and it did; it meant application, which meant program, which meant, I think, something along the lines of "mostly self contained system to accept user input, compute said input, and return a user-friendly result" to oversimplify. For a long time I boycotted the term "app" once Apple et al. used it as their term for what I considered "programs" and now I'm just done with caring. App = program = executable = distinct set of actions triggered by user or automated input = interface
- Pr0ject217 5y agoIs it possible to run a windows driver for an external audio interface?
- damiante 5y agoI've seen other posts here before with similar offerings such as Looking Glass; does this make use of GPU passthrough or does it use GPU virtualisation? I ask because my Linux machine doesn't have onboard graphics on my CPU so I can't use passthrough solutions to achieve good performance (didn't realise I needed this when I bought my parts).
- encryptluks2 5y agoFreerdp has had RemoteApp capability for a long time.
- Krisjohn 5y agoAnd it relies on Windows's built-in RemoteApp server: "We will need Windows 10 Pro, Enterprise or Server to use RDP apps". I guess it streamlines launching apps?
- lvs 5y agoIsn't the preferred solution just to continue hacking at Wine? With Proton going big this year, I'm hopeful that the non-gaming side of Wine is going to start getting more and more development attention soon. The performance is so much better than virtualization. Fingers crossed.
- Tenoke 5y agoI don't think it's possible for wine to translate everything perfectly the way a VM can even in theory. It's definitely getting better but you can't get rid of the need for VMs for all Windows software.
- GhettoComputers 5y agoWhat program do you have an issue with? Wine has been supporting a lot of non gaming software for a long time better than Windows itself. Proton has similarly been good for a long time, it has been big. The deck wasn’t some magical finished product it was built on the skelton of steam machines.
- lvs 5y agoOh Wine is still incredibly buggy, but I'm still a big supporter obviously. Even Microsoft and Adobe products work barely with exactly the right versions and winetricks with the occasional tinkering, interface bugs, crashes. These are bugs that haven't been fixed in many years. I think an interesting development target for them would just be to choose the top 25 productivity apps and make the last 3 or 4 versions work smoothly without requiring users to spend time troubleshooting the installation, activation, getting standard app functions to work, etc.. Valve has leverage with game developers who rely on Steam for distribution to work together to get games working in Proton, but the same relationship doesn't exist for other non-native apps and Wine. So the development really needs to happen on the wine side.
- phil294 5y agoGames and basic UI elements work great, but there's still several WinAPIs unsupported. 2D drawing for example: Paint.net, the in my opinion best image editor in existence, is borked.
- shaicoleman 5y agoShowcase videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab4kYHWU_dA&list=PLPSBKgud15q3dyDG5OHGIF-l4e-c4MP3h https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ab4kYHWU_dA&list=PLPSBKgud15... Announcement and Q&A on Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/skmh28/i_made_an_application_to_run_windows_apps_on/ https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/skmh28/i_made_an_app...
- ghoomketu 5y agoJust wanted to say that the getting started docs are really well done and super helpful. I don't think I would have followed through if it was not the screenshots and the detailed instructions you've put in there. Kudos on this amazing project and all the work you put into making all this!
- a-dub 5y agois this different from the seamless/unity modes that are available in vmware/virtualbox? i think they behave in the same way, they host guest windows which are painted by an rdp like thing (possibly just rdp) but behave like regular windows in the host operating system. i remember making use of it back in 2013 or so. i think the vmware one even supports 3d hardware accelerated windows.
- a-dub 5y agoi see now, it's seamless mode for kvm as opposed to virtualbox or vmware.
- evoloution 5y agoAt least VirtualBox has stopped working properly for some time now in my distribution without any plans to fix it. Workaround is freerdp remoteapp but this also breaks sometime with overlay menus... It was about time someone took a shot at this. Also, MS hyperv has been doing a lot of improvements to improve desktop user experience (e.g. opengl) whereas VMWare and virtualbox are more geared towards enterprise I think.
- stjohnswarts 5y agoNoticed that yesterday with Endeavour OS, I switched over to vmware player for now for windows. Everything just seems to work on qemu on linux though, but I never had much luck with it on windows.
- wila 5y agoVMware unity hasn't been supported for Linux guest or Linux hosts since around 2015.. and no it wasn't using RDP. See also: https://planetvm.net/blog/?p=2936 https://planetvm.net/blog/?p=2936
- unnouinceput 5y agoQuote: "Set the CPU cores (2 recommended), Memory (4096 MB recommended)" - this is from setting the Win10 virtual machine. I'd recommend 6GB instead of 4GB as minimum when dealing with Win10. A typical Win10 on idle, without anything launched in foreground uses around 3GB hence 4GB is kind of at limit.
- MikusR 5y agoWindows will use a percentage of available ram. And if you have more than 4GB it will start to unbundle services (each service will get it's own svchost).
- anyfoo 5y agoBy the way, on macOS, Crossover (which uses WINE) works pretty well for me for that use case. My main use is for running Micro-Cap[1], a previously expensive circuit simulator with a decades old history, that has been made entirely free when the company seized doing business in 2019. (My guess is that the owner retired.) [1] http://www.spectrum-soft.com http://www.spectrum-soft.com
- stjohnswarts 5y agoI always like crossover back in the days when I absolutely had to have photoshop and office. I've managed in the pass few years to get away from that work though so now 100% linux/bsd with a splash of office365 on the web
- a9h74j 5y agoThanks. Recognized the name for mixed-signal simulation. You just made my day.
- sriku 5y agoWish name collision was avoided. When I saw the title at first I thought it was going to be about the Cassowary constraint solver used in UI layout (recency bias for me).
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- anaganisk 5y agoThey’re not even similar softwares, its really not worth it to spend effort, to find a n unused name from thousands of softwares.
- scarygliders 5y agoI don't understand the problem this is solving. Perhaps it's the sparse explanation from the github page? I dunno. What I do know is; I have a Windows VM under libvirt/Kvm/Qemu and it's everything this thing claims to be - if I understood the broken English of it - I have passed through my RTX2070super GPU and I am basically running Windows+"apps" - including a few Windows games, and I'm using Looking-Glass to do it all, meaning I have full speed graphical access to Windows I need. Can somebody please explain to me what this thing is and why it's any different or better than what I have now?
- blarg1 5y agoProbably because people like me can't be bothered figuring out how to setup libvirt/Kvm/Qemu.
- petepete 5y agoIf you use virt-manager (or Gnome Boxes) it doesn't really take any figuring out. You just need the relevant install media and follow the prompts. https://virt-manager.org/ https://virt-manager.org/
- dreinhardt 5y agoI went with Gnome boxes and installed windows xp. After 20 minutes of trying to get sound working I found out that the automatic configuration select ‘none’ for audio backend. Worked fine after selecting ‘spice’, pulse audio didn’t work tho but also didn’t result in an error. Apart from sound everything worked out of the box, tho. I did all that to run some old music training software that only came in 16 and 32 bit versions.
- blarg1 5y agoCool I'll give it a try.
- eurasiantiger 5y agoSo is this the same virt-manager that passes clipboard and selection contents to all VMs without any option to turn it off?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Perenti 5y agoAs an Australian, I insist that anything named "Cassowary" should try to disembowel you if you have anything to do with it.
- junon 5y agoYou probably won't like Kiwi[0] then, either. [0] https://github.com/nucleic/kiwi https://github.com/nucleic/kiwi
- Frenchgeek 5y agoSo less of a VM name and more of a chainsaw brand?
- l8rlump 5y agohttps://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassowary https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassowary
- maxicarlos08 5y agoSo LWS has landed now? Great work!
- jacobmischka 5y agoWould be LSW.
- galaxyLogic 5y agoCan you run this on Windows Subsystem for Linux? And if so can you then run Windows Subsystem for Linux on this virtual machine?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- anaganisk 5y agoWhy tho?
- hansel_der 5y agofor shits an giggles obviously https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matryoshka_doll https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matryoshka_doll
- jeroenhd 5y agoAFAIK WSL doesn't support nested virtualization, so you wouldn't be able to run a VM inside WSL. You can probably get it working, though, because Hyper-V definitely does support that. Hell, it might even be useful! Windows 11 should add desktop shortcuts for Linux applications, so this would be an easy way to run programs inside an older version of Windows (if you install Windows 7 in the VM, for example).
- my123 5y agoFor WSL2, nested virtualisation is enabled nowadays. (shipping at least on Windows 11)
- GordonS 5y agoDependant on CPU, I guess, and not just the hardware. Last time I checked (couple of months back), nested virtualisation wasn't supported on Windows for many (all?) AMD CPUs, even if they had the right hardware instructions.
- throwawayvibes 5y agoVirtualbox already has seemless mode.
- rcarmo 5y agoI find myself wishing SeamlessRDP was a thing on the Mac every couple of years, and yet it has not yet come to pass. (I do use Parallels, but sometimes I want to use a remote app without a full-screen session)
- z3t4 5y agoCan you play windows only 3d games in it ?
- deadbunny 5y agoI've not used it but there are methods of doing GPU passthrough for kmv/libvirt/qemu so I'd assume it might work, though if it's using rdp for showing the Windows applications i'd assume it will likely be terrible. You might be interested in https://looking-glass.io/ https://looking-glass.io/
- tpoacher 5y agoMisleading title on HN (correct in actual github repo) "Applications" != "Apps"
- compsciphd 5y agois this just apps remoted individually via rdp rail?