4 ms·

Paul Buchheit: Not getting health insurance is a really bad idea

26 points by paul 19y ago

lindsayrgwatt 19y ago
If you're in NYC, check out Freelancer's Union. Like Paul, I saw a guy lying face down on the street the other day after he was run over by a truck crossing a perfectly normal street corner. Made me glad I had my coverage ($150/month)
nickb 19y ago
After watching SiCKO, I'm less convinced that insurance is really the answer. You get denied treatments even if you have insurance. The whole system is messed up :(
- paul 19y ago
  It's obviously not perfect, but the notion that it's worthless is dangerously wrong. I can confirm from experience that it covers treatment at least some of the time (nobody I know has been denied).
- lupin_sansei 19y ago
  Here's the counterpoint to Sicko. 6 month+ waiting lists for MRI/CAT scans, and 1 year+ waiting lists for routine operations until you die, or they have to remove parts of your body: http://www.freemarketcure.com/ http://www.freemarketcure.com/
- staunch 19y ago
  It's pretty safe to be fed up with politics and not participate, but it might be dangerous to give up on medical care altogether :-)
- davidw 19y ago
  Well, obviously Michael Moore isn't going to film a happy family getting taken care of by a friendly company. There wouldn't be much point in making a movie about that.
donna 19y ago
there is also Catastrophe Health Insurance
- uuilly 19y ago
  State Farm will approve you over the phone for catastrophic health care for $40 a month. That is what our startup is on. If something goes wrong it's a $2500 deductable but everything else is taken care of. So if you need stitches, you're hosed, if you need a new kidney, it only costs $2500. Godspeed.
brianmckenzie 19y ago
A few months back, a friend and I got hit by a car. We were minding our own business, talking about our startup activities, crossing on the green, and some idiot ran the light and hit us. Neither of us saw it coming, and it hurt really, really bad. ER bills were big, I'm glad I had insurance. Two weeks ago I was walking to work and saw a guy collapse against a building. I called the emergency number and tried to help him, along with several others, but the guy was completely out, he died right there. I wish I could say differently, but that's what happened. He wasn't particularly old, either. Ready or not, you might as well have health insurance.
- ralph 19y ago
  Here in the UK I've heard of people "running lights" in the USA. It doesn't happen very often in the UK. Someone driving through red knows that they're likely to have an accident or mow down a pedestrian. I've long wondered if it is the USA's lack of roundabouts compared to the UK that causes many Americans to grow frustrated sitting at red lights when there's no traffic driving across them on green that makes them conditioned to drive through red. My neighbouring desk for a year for a hotdesk to the visiting American on a two-week tour of duty. For many it was their first UK visit. The majority liked roundabouts after a couple of days, preferring them to junction lights.
  - lupin_sansei 19y ago
    I grew up in the UK in the 70s and 80s and there used to be public service announcements about the dangers of being an "Amber Gambler".
  - davidw 19y ago
    Roundabouts.... hrm. I used to work near the one of the few in San Francisco (8th & Townsend) and occasionally people would take the shortest path around it. Kind of scary. And what's really scary is being a cyclist in a roundabout somewhere like Italy. I much preferred the traffic lights before they replaced them with roundabouts in Padova. It's bad enough playing chicken in a car, let alone a bicycle.
antirez 19y ago
Sure, get insurance! But also make sure to eat good food, and do sport.
ced 19y ago
- Isn't that like a safe job with a 100% chance of low income vs a startup with 10% chance of jackpot? With health insurance, you're assuming bad luck, but with a startup, you're assuming the opposite. - 77$/month is still quite a bit of money. Even if you absolutely want to spend it on safety, it's not clear that insurance is the best way to go. Upgrading those frozen dinners to bio food might be a better bet for long-term health. Or buying a bike helmet, living in an unpolluted area, taking time to exercise daily. - When you're twenty-something, there is a rather low number of incidents which are not a) low-cost enough that you can take care of it and b) curable at all I have health insurance now, but I'm not sure that it's such a wise investment. I find it hard to make an honest assessment of how much it is really worth. Anyone have hard data on this?
- kingnothing 19y ago
  I had no insurance a couple of years ago and needed a minor outpatient surgery. The surgeon worked with me on the price and charged nothing for the follow up office visits. The cost of the OR comprised about 90% of what I had to pay as the hospital only gave something like a 10% rate reduction. Taking everything in to consideration, it cost me about the same out of pocket for that to have insurance versus not having insurance, including the cost of premiums for a couple of years. Afterwards, I decided I'd be better off with insurance in case something bad happened. I've only known one person who had a huge medical problem without insurance, and, after spending some months filling out forms for the hospital and various programs for uninsured people, he wound up paying only the bills from the doctors. All but one of them offered a decent reduction in their fees, and I think a couple dropped them all together. All said and done, he was relieved of around $250,000 of debt. From my experience, I think it's a good idea to have some type of health insurance just in case you hit a worst case scenario.
- Tichy 19y ago
  That would depend on the value you put on your health/life. For me P(illness)ValueOfLife exceeds P(startupSuccess)ValueOfStartup
- paul 19y ago
  It's not at all the same. Do you understand the difference between buying a lottery ticket and playing russian roulette? Your strategy should be to seek upside while limiting downside.
staunch 19y ago
I randomly got sick and then developed bad pneumonia. I ended up staying in the hospital for almost a week while recovering and then was fine. Total cost for diagnostic tests, medicine, and my stay was ~$30k. I was in disbelief when my HMO covered absolutely 100% of it. Because I had insurance I was only in pain for a week instead of a year.
budu3 19y ago
Great post Paul. Concise and to the point.
dhouston 19y ago
that was enough of a kick in the ass to sign up for coverage (after having intended to for a while but never really getting around to it), thanks for the post :P btw, other summer yc founders in cambridge (or other massachusetts residents): go to http://mahealthconnector.org http://mahealthconnector.org ; the lowest plan costs like $119/mo and it takes like 5 mins to enroll and it's all online.

26 points by paul 19y ago

If you're in NYC, check out Freelancer's Union. Like Paul, I saw a guy lying face down on the street the other day after he was run over by a truck crossing a perfectly normal street corner. Made me glad I had my coverage ($150/month)

nickb 19y ago

After watching SiCKO, I'm less convinced that insurance is really the answer. You get denied treatments even if you have insurance. The whole system is messed up :(

paul 19y ago
It's obviously not perfect, but the notion that it's worthless is dangerously wrong. I can confirm from experience that it covers treatment at least some of the time (nobody I know has been denied).
lupin_sansei 19y ago
Here's the counterpoint to Sicko. 6 month+ waiting lists for MRI/CAT scans, and 1 year+ waiting lists for routine operations until you die, or they have to remove parts of your body: http://www.freemarketcure.com/ http://www.freemarketcure.com/
staunch 19y ago
It's pretty safe to be fed up with politics and not participate, but it might be dangerous to give up on medical care altogether :-)
davidw 19y ago
Well, obviously Michael Moore isn't going to film a happy family getting taken care of by a friendly company. There wouldn't be much point in making a movie about that.

donna 19y ago

there is also Catastrophe Health Insurance

uuilly 19y ago
State Farm will approve you over the phone for catastrophic health care for $40 a month. That is what our startup is on. If something goes wrong it's a $2500 deductable but everything else is taken care of. So if you need stitches, you're hosed, if you need a new kidney, it only costs $2500. Godspeed.

brianmckenzie 19y ago

A few months back, a friend and I got hit by a car. We were minding our own business, talking about our startup activities, crossing on the green, and some idiot ran the light and hit us. Neither of us saw it coming, and it hurt really, really bad. ER bills were big, I'm glad I had insurance. Two weeks ago I was walking to work and saw a guy collapse against a building. I called the emergency number and tried to help him, along with several others, but the guy was completely out, he died right there. I wish I could say differently, but that's what happened. He wasn't particularly old, either. Ready or not, you might as well have health insurance.

ralph 19y ago
Here in the UK I've heard of people "running lights" in the USA. It doesn't happen very often in the UK. Someone driving through red knows that they're likely to have an accident or mow down a pedestrian. I've long wondered if it is the USA's lack of roundabouts compared to the UK that causes many Americans to grow frustrated sitting at red lights when there's no traffic driving across them on green that makes them conditioned to drive through red. My neighbouring desk for a year for a hotdesk to the visiting American on a two-week tour of duty. For many it was their first UK visit. The majority liked roundabouts after a couple of days, preferring them to junction lights.
- lupin_sansei 19y ago
  I grew up in the UK in the 70s and 80s and there used to be public service announcements about the dangers of being an "Amber Gambler".
- davidw 19y ago
  Roundabouts.... hrm. I used to work near the one of the few in San Francisco (8th & Townsend) and occasionally people would take the shortest path around it. Kind of scary. And what's really scary is being a cyclist in a roundabout somewhere like Italy. I much preferred the traffic lights before they replaced them with roundabouts in Padova. It's bad enough playing chicken in a car, let alone a bicycle.

antirez 19y ago

Sure, get insurance! But also make sure to eat good food, and do sport.

ced 19y ago

- Isn't that like a safe job with a 100% chance of low income vs a startup with 10% chance of jackpot? With health insurance, you're assuming bad luck, but with a startup, you're assuming the opposite. - 77$/month is still quite a bit of money. Even if you absolutely want to spend it on safety, it's not clear that insurance is the best way to go. Upgrading those frozen dinners to bio food might be a better bet for long-term health. Or buying a bike helmet, living in an unpolluted area, taking time to exercise daily. - When you're twenty-something, there is a rather low number of incidents which are not a) low-cost enough that you can take care of it and b) curable at all I have health insurance now, but I'm not sure that it's such a wise investment. I find it hard to make an honest assessment of how much it is really worth. Anyone have hard data on this?

kingnothing 19y ago
I had no insurance a couple of years ago and needed a minor outpatient surgery. The surgeon worked with me on the price and charged nothing for the follow up office visits. The cost of the OR comprised about 90% of what I had to pay as the hospital only gave something like a 10% rate reduction. Taking everything in to consideration, it cost me about the same out of pocket for that to have insurance versus not having insurance, including the cost of premiums for a couple of years. Afterwards, I decided I'd be better off with insurance in case something bad happened. I've only known one person who had a huge medical problem without insurance, and, after spending some months filling out forms for the hospital and various programs for uninsured people, he wound up paying only the bills from the doctors. All but one of them offered a decent reduction in their fees, and I think a couple dropped them all together. All said and done, he was relieved of around $250,000 of debt. From my experience, I think it's a good idea to have some type of health insurance just in case you hit a worst case scenario.
Tichy 19y ago
That would depend on the value you put on your health/life. For me P(illness)ValueOfLife exceeds P(startupSuccess)ValueOfStartup
paul 19y ago
It's not at all the same. Do you understand the difference between buying a lottery ticket and playing russian roulette? Your strategy should be to seek upside while limiting downside.

staunch 19y ago

I randomly got sick and then developed bad pneumonia. I ended up staying in the hospital for almost a week while recovering and then was fine. Total cost for diagnostic tests, medicine, and my stay was ~$30k. I was in disbelief when my HMO covered absolutely 100% of it. Because I had insurance I was only in pain for a week instead of a year.

budu3 19y ago

Great post Paul. Concise and to the point.

dhouston 19y ago

that was enough of a kick in the ass to sign up for coverage (after having intended to for a while but never really getting around to it), thanks for the post :P btw, other summer yc founders in cambridge (or other massachusetts residents): go to http://mahealthconnector.org http://mahealthconnector.org ; the lowest plan costs like $119/mo and it takes like 5 mins to enroll and it's all online.