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And then step into the Star Trek transporter. :) You're obliterated, then perfectly reassembled on the other side. Is that still "you", "subjectively"? Should

And then step into the Star Trek transporter. :) You're obliterated, then perfectly reassembled on the other side. Is that still "you", "subjectively"? Should you or others even care about that question? And, if not, damn, that's ego-killing af.

guerrilla 5y ago
My answer is yes but it depends on your theory of identity. Unless you're positing a soul or something though, your answer is probably going to have to be yes.
pessimizer 5y ago
Or even without transporters: what evidence do I have that the me that ended this sentence is the same me that began it? If anything, I have material evidence that it isn't.
- guerrilla 5y ago
  Yeah, you need a theory of identity to answer your questions, first year philosophy sutff [1]. 1. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/identity-personal/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/identity-personal/
  - pessimizer 5y ago
    Exactly. But having a theory of identity is just a declaration that you subscribe to one, not anything meaningful.
    - guerrilla 5y ago
      Umm, no. Having a theory of identity allows you to deduce the answers to your questions.
      - pessimizer 5y ago
        Based on an arbitrary choice. I can deduce as many answers to my questions as theories of identity that I can count. None of them will give me any insight into the question of subjectivity.
        guerrilla 5y ago
        If it's an arabitrary choice then the problem is entirely you.
ncmncm 5y ago
A copy is a copy. The copy remembers everything you remember. The copy can spend your money. The copy can have sex with your spouse. Is the copy "you"? Technically no, but it doesn't matter because there are no transporters. But you go to sleep every night. Is the person who wakes up "you"? Many of the atoms in the person who woke up were in that person's stomach, and many of the atoms in the person who went to sleep are in the air. Does the difference from the transporter thing matter? No reason it should. The person who went to sleep is not here. The one who woke up can spend that person's money, wear that person's clothes, remember passwords. Close enough is close enough. You might choose not to spend that person's money, next day. But they won't be needing it, and you do. So, no problem. If you perceive a problem, you are just tying yourself in knots, and are guaranteed to make no progress.
Buttons840 5y ago
Here's a thought experiment. You're going to use a Star Trek teleporter-like device to make an exact copy of yourself. What are the odds that you end up being the copy? Or rather, what should you believe the odds are that you will be the copy? Of course, I, the original, will not be the copy, but if I go in knowing I'm not the copy, the the copy will come out knowing he's not the copy. Thus, you should go in believing there's a 50% chance you are the copy, and then both the original and the copy will come out with a logically consistent belief.
- watercooler_guy 5y ago
  A good way to know for sure would be to use a sharpie to draw a mark on the inside of the particular chamber you step into before the machine is activated. Then, after you are copied, both people will have the memory of drawing such a mark. But the copy, who just materialized in a second chamber, will be surprised to find that there is no mark in front of him.

guerrilla 5y ago

My answer is yes but it depends on your theory of identity. Unless you're positing a soul or something though, your answer is probably going to have to be yes.

pessimizer 5y ago

Or even without transporters: what evidence do I have that the me that ended this sentence is the same me that began it? If anything, I have material evidence that it isn't.

guerrilla 5y ago
Yeah, you need a theory of identity to answer your questions, first year philosophy sutff [1]. 1. https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/identity-personal/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/identity-personal/
- pessimizer 5y ago
  Exactly. But having a theory of identity is just a declaration that you subscribe to one, not anything meaningful.
  - guerrilla 5y ago
    Umm, no. Having a theory of identity allows you to deduce the answers to your questions.
    - pessimizer 5y ago
      Based on an arbitrary choice. I can deduce as many answers to my questions as theories of identity that I can count. None of them will give me any insight into the question of subjectivity.
      - guerrilla 5y ago
        If it's an arabitrary choice then the problem is entirely you.

ncmncm 5y ago

A copy is a copy. The copy remembers everything you remember. The copy can spend your money. The copy can have sex with your spouse. Is the copy "you"? Technically no, but it doesn't matter because there are no transporters. But you go to sleep every night. Is the person who wakes up "you"? Many of the atoms in the person who woke up were in that person's stomach, and many of the atoms in the person who went to sleep are in the air. Does the difference from the transporter thing matter? No reason it should. The person who went to sleep is not here. The one who woke up can spend that person's money, wear that person's clothes, remember passwords. Close enough is close enough. You might choose not to spend that person's money, next day. But they won't be needing it, and you do. So, no problem. If you perceive a problem, you are just tying yourself in knots, and are guaranteed to make no progress.

Buttons840 5y ago

Here's a thought experiment. You're going to use a Star Trek teleporter-like device to make an exact copy of yourself. What are the odds that you end up being the copy? Or rather, what should you believe the odds are that you will be the copy? Of course, I, the original, will not be the copy, but if I go in knowing I'm not the copy, the the copy will come out knowing he's not the copy. Thus, you should go in believing there's a 50% chance you are the copy, and then both the original and the copy will come out with a logically consistent belief.

watercooler_guy 5y ago
A good way to know for sure would be to use a sharpie to draw a mark on the inside of the particular chamber you step into before the machine is activated. Then, after you are copied, both people will have the memory of drawing such a mark. But the copy, who just materialized in a second chamber, will be surprised to find that there is no mark in front of him.