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> but the flu vaccine doesn't seem worth it for me Such a confusing, yet common stance. The flu vaccine is free, risk is essentially nil, and it reduces your c

> but the flu vaccine doesn't seem worth it for me Such a confusing, yet common stance. The flu vaccine is free, risk is essentially nil, and it reduces your chance of death across the board[1]: > At a median follow‐up duration of 19.5 months, influenza vaccine was associated with a lower risk of all‐cause mortality (RR, 0.75; 95% CI, 0.60–0.93 [P=0.01]), cardiovascular mortality (RR, 0.82; 95% CI, 0.80–0.84 [P<0.001]), and major adverse cardiovascular events (RR, 0.87; 95% CI, 0.80–0.94 [P<0.001]) compared with control. The use of the influenza vaccine was not associated with a statistically significant reduction of myocardial infarction (RR, 0.73; 95% CI, 0.49–1.09 [P=0.12]) compared with control. It's the biggest no-brainer since seatbelts. [1] https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.120.019636 https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/JAHA.120.019636

Ntrails 5y ago
> It's the biggest no-brainer since seatbelts. What if I told you I don't wear a seatbelt?
darkerside 5y ago
Participants' mean age was 69.2±7.01 years This tells me, when I'm 65, I should definitely be getting flu shots.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  That's very much not what it tells you.
  - darkerside 5y ago
    So I shouldn't be getting flu shots when I'm 65? Care to expand?
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      The fact that the group of participants in the study was of a certain age range means that the study says nothing about the result for people outside of that age range. Much more and better explanation about flu shots here: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/flu/in-depth/flu-shots/art-20048000 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/flu/in-depth/...
      - darkerside 5y ago
        That's exactly what I'm saying. The study tells me something about that age range, and nothing about anyone else. So it tells me that it's a good idea to get a flu shot when you reach that age range. What exactly are you trying to say???
        jacquesm 5y ago
        > So it tells me that it's a good idea to get a flu shot when you reach that age range. No, that's not what it tells you. Really, I can't help you if an article that spells this stuff out in great detail results in a response that indicates that you have not understood it, they spent a lot more time on this than I will be able to do in this context.
        darkerside 5y ago
        ... The study subjects were in that age range, were they not? I truly don't understand how you could draw conclusions about how a young person should approach flu shots from this study, and I'm not approaching this from a malicious place. If you're not going to converse in good faith, this is probably not the place for you. Not anti vax, not that it should matter for this argument.
nsxwolf 5y ago
It’s just very difficult to make people care about the flu. It’s something they might experience a couple times in their lives and no one really expects to die from it. It’s impressive annual vaccination rates are as high as they are.
spookthesunset 5y ago
I won’t be getting any further boosters until all restrictions are permanently removed. Like fuck I’m gonna keep getting boosters but still need to show papers and wear masks. I’m not a sucker.
- mrtesthah 5y ago
  Let’s just leave it to health insurance providers to raise your premiums, then. If you believe in personal responsibility, that’s how the consequences of your decision will play out should you need hospitalization for your future immune-escaping variant infection. Consider if your first impulse is to deny the possibility of that last point. You’re probably not an evolutionary virologist, so the truth is you have no idea which mutations are next. Perhaps you think T-cell immunity will save you, but omicron already escapes >50% of T-cell antibody types in 21% of vaccinated or infected people. Will we develop better cross-neutralizing antibodies from omicron or will antigen imprinting doom us to suffering wave after wave of new variants, due to maintaining variant-specific immunity only? I bet that feeling of self-righteousness is satisfying, isn’t it? Perhaps that’s because blaming other humans subconsciously lets you continue the illusion that humans were ever in control of the pandemic in the first place or that a real risk ever existed for you. Anger is a lot more comfortable than existential anxiety. But the truth is, it’s not “the man” who’s keeping you down at all — the pandemic limitations you feel right now are the libertarian equivalent to your fist being restrained from meeting your neighbor’s nose.
  - nradov 5y ago
    Due to the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), medical insurers aren't legally allowed to set premiums based on vaccination status. But I would still encourage everyone eligible to protect themselves by getting vaccinated regardless of insurance issues. https://www.healthcare.gov/how-plans-set-your-premiums/ https://www.healthcare.gov/how-plans-set-your-premiums/ Cellular immunity is highly durable and effective. https://peterattiamd.com/covid-part2/ https://peterattiamd.com/covid-part2/
    - mrtesthah 5y ago

Ntrails 5y ago

> It's the biggest no-brainer since seatbelts. What if I told you I don't wear a seatbelt?

darkerside 5y ago

Participants' mean age was 69.2±7.01 years This tells me, when I'm 65, I should definitely be getting flu shots.

jacquesm 5y ago
That's very much not what it tells you.
- darkerside 5y ago
  So I shouldn't be getting flu shots when I'm 65? Care to expand?
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    The fact that the group of participants in the study was of a certain age range means that the study says nothing about the result for people outside of that age range. Much more and better explanation about flu shots here: https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/flu/in-depth/flu-shots/art-20048000 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/flu/in-depth/...
    - darkerside 5y ago
      That's exactly what I'm saying. The study tells me something about that age range, and nothing about anyone else. So it tells me that it's a good idea to get a flu shot when you reach that age range. What exactly are you trying to say???
      - jacquesm 5y ago
        > So it tells me that it's a good idea to get a flu shot when you reach that age range. No, that's not what it tells you. Really, I can't help you if an article that spells this stuff out in great detail results in a response that indicates that you have not understood it, they spent a lot more time on this than I will be able to do in this context.
        darkerside 5y ago
        ... The study subjects were in that age range, were they not? I truly don't understand how you could draw conclusions about how a young person should approach flu shots from this study, and I'm not approaching this from a malicious place. If you're not going to converse in good faith, this is probably not the place for you. Not anti vax, not that it should matter for this argument.

nsxwolf 5y ago

It’s just very difficult to make people care about the flu. It’s something they might experience a couple times in their lives and no one really expects to die from it. It’s impressive annual vaccination rates are as high as they are.

spookthesunset 5y ago

I won’t be getting any further boosters until all restrictions are permanently removed. Like fuck I’m gonna keep getting boosters but still need to show papers and wear masks. I’m not a sucker.

mrtesthah 5y ago
Let’s just leave it to health insurance providers to raise your premiums, then. If you believe in personal responsibility, that’s how the consequences of your decision will play out should you need hospitalization for your future immune-escaping variant infection. Consider if your first impulse is to deny the possibility of that last point. You’re probably not an evolutionary virologist, so the truth is you have no idea which mutations are next. Perhaps you think T-cell immunity will save you, but omicron already escapes >50% of T-cell antibody types in 21% of vaccinated or infected people. Will we develop better cross-neutralizing antibodies from omicron or will antigen imprinting doom us to suffering wave after wave of new variants, due to maintaining variant-specific immunity only? I bet that feeling of self-righteousness is satisfying, isn’t it? Perhaps that’s because blaming other humans subconsciously lets you continue the illusion that humans were ever in control of the pandemic in the first place or that a real risk ever existed for you. Anger is a lot more comfortable than existential anxiety. But the truth is, it’s not “the man” who’s keeping you down at all — the pandemic limitations you feel right now are the libertarian equivalent to your fist being restrained from meeting your neighbor’s nose.
- nradov 5y ago
  Due to the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare), medical insurers aren't legally allowed to set premiums based on vaccination status. But I would still encourage everyone eligible to protect themselves by getting vaccinated regardless of insurance issues. https://www.healthcare.gov/how-plans-set-your-premiums/ https://www.healthcare.gov/how-plans-set-your-premiums/ Cellular immunity is highly durable and effective. https://peterattiamd.com/covid-part2/ https://peterattiamd.com/covid-part2/
  - mrtesthah 5y ago