4 ms·

>the goalposts are exactly the same as they were two years ago Shouldn't the politicians have made progress on this issue over the course of two years? At what

>the goalposts are exactly the same as they were two years ago Shouldn't the politicians have made progress on this issue over the course of two years? At what point is it incompetence or corruption, if the billions being spent to fight the pandemic make zero discernable impact on the most critical issue?

thfuran 5y ago
>Shouldn't the politicians have made progress on this issue over the course of two years? What do you mean? Should they should magically cause the number of doctors and hospitals to double inside two years? >if the billions being spent to fight the pandemic make zero discernable impact on the most critical issue? What leads you to believe that measures such as pushing vaccination haven't been having tremendous impact on that issue?
- JacobThreeThree 5y ago
  >What leads you to believe that measures such as pushing vaccination haven't been having tremendous impact on that issue? Do you believe that health care systems are currently overwhelmed by COVID?
  - ineedasername 5y ago
    Mainly in areas where many people haven't been vaccinated. Where I'm at, hospitals are fine.
  - sanderjd 5y ago
    If the definition of "overwhelmed" is "past the point of functioning at all" then no. But if the definition is "at the point of functioning with an appreciably lower quality of care", then definitely yes in many areas (less so now, but more so a month ago).
  - edmundsauto 5y ago
    In the United States, they are currently paying traveling nurses up to $10k per week. That is a 500% increase over normal pay. It's so bad that the Texas legislature and Congress are trying to limit interstate commerce and impose wage caps. These gigs are not hard to come by - anyone qualified can easily get them. If that doesn't say "understaffed and overwhelmed", I'm not sure what evidence would.
  - eecc 5y ago
    You don't seem to have an "elective surgery" planned and then cancelled and postponed indefinitely, haven't you. Or a biopsy you cannot have for that worrisome mass down there... all because your local facilities are at capacity trying to keep no-vaxxers alive. Good for you
    - JacobThreeThree 5y ago
      I'm sorry, I don't understand the relation between me asking if a poster believes hospitals are overwhelmed, and your comment. I assume you believe hospital systems are still overwhelmed after two years, based on your sentiment.
      - eecc 5y ago
        Your comment is likely a rhetorical question. If you disagree to a statement please add some countering facts rather than simply challenging the statements with artifices and shifting the burden.
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  > Should they should magically cause the number of doctors and hospitals to double inside two years? It's not even magic. It just needs to be done. Find a way. There is an emergency. You don't just get to whine and complain that it is too hard. Your solution doesn't need to be perfect. Far from it, in fact. It just needs to patch the issue so we don't need to do restrictions of any kind. Anybody that claims it is impossible to double or even quadruple healthcare capacity specifically for covid just isn't being creative about it enough. It's not magic. You just make it happen. You have almost infinite resources to do it even up to and including relaxing licensing laws or removing any other political or bureaucratic hurdle.
  - lolc 5y ago
    > You just make it happen. Funny you're light on specifics. We talk about a situation where people die if it doesn't happen. So better propose something solid. > almost infinite resources Build hospital tents. > relaxing licensing laws Employ untrained people. > removing any other political or bureaucratic hurdle Eh that tends to happen, once you're in that triage situation. Look you can't will medical care. You have to build it. It takes decades.
- throwaway48375 5y ago
  If we had started training more nurses at the beginning of this pandemic they would have graduated already.
  - Daishiman 5y ago
    You mean, training at home during lockdown?
  - dirkt 5y ago
    Paying them more would also help...
standardUser 5y ago
In most of the US life has been back to normal (give or take) for a year or more. A lot of people are still dying, but they are primarily higher risk individuals who have chosen not to get the vaccines that have been free and readily available for about a year. So in terms of goalposts, what exactly is your goal? I'd like to see international travel normalize - it's maybe one of the few restrictions I still feel is constraining me - but there is little my government can do about that.
ineedasername 5y ago
There's been plenty of progress on the issue of not overwhelming the healthcare system. In the areas with high vaccination rates. Most hospitalizations are by the unvaccinated. In those cases where unvaccinated overwhelm the system, that's not the politicians' fault except for the ones also spreading anti-vaxer misinformation.
sanderjd 5y ago
They did make a lot of progress on it: they supported the extremely fast invention and roll out of vaccines that accomplish these goals. People have refused to take those vaccines and have refused to support politicians mandating that people take them. It is thus outside the hands of the politicians at this point, and in the hands of society at large.
dirkt 5y ago
Where I live (which may be different from the previous poster), the health system has not been overwhelmed yet. So guess that counts as success? We didn't have to rig tents to use as hospitals, burn dead bodies on the street, or to pay exorbitant sums for oxygen on the black market, as it has happened in other countries. And if you ask me, yes, that's worth billions, and a bit of self-discipline.

thfuran 5y ago

>Shouldn't the politicians have made progress on this issue over the course of two years? What do you mean? Should they should magically cause the number of doctors and hospitals to double inside two years? >if the billions being spent to fight the pandemic make zero discernable impact on the most critical issue? What leads you to believe that measures such as pushing vaccination haven't been having tremendous impact on that issue?

JacobThreeThree 5y ago
>What leads you to believe that measures such as pushing vaccination haven't been having tremendous impact on that issue? Do you believe that health care systems are currently overwhelmed by COVID?
- ineedasername 5y ago
  Mainly in areas where many people haven't been vaccinated. Where I'm at, hospitals are fine.
- sanderjd 5y ago
  If the definition of "overwhelmed" is "past the point of functioning at all" then no. But if the definition is "at the point of functioning with an appreciably lower quality of care", then definitely yes in many areas (less so now, but more so a month ago).
- edmundsauto 5y ago
  In the United States, they are currently paying traveling nurses up to $10k per week. That is a 500% increase over normal pay. It's so bad that the Texas legislature and Congress are trying to limit interstate commerce and impose wage caps. These gigs are not hard to come by - anyone qualified can easily get them. If that doesn't say "understaffed and overwhelmed", I'm not sure what evidence would.
- eecc 5y ago
  You don't seem to have an "elective surgery" planned and then cancelled and postponed indefinitely, haven't you. Or a biopsy you cannot have for that worrisome mass down there... all because your local facilities are at capacity trying to keep no-vaxxers alive. Good for you
  - JacobThreeThree 5y ago
    I'm sorry, I don't understand the relation between me asking if a poster believes hospitals are overwhelmed, and your comment. I assume you believe hospital systems are still overwhelmed after two years, based on your sentiment.
    - eecc 5y ago
      Your comment is likely a rhetorical question. If you disagree to a statement please add some countering facts rather than simply challenging the statements with artifices and shifting the burden.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
spookthesunset 5y ago
> Should they should magically cause the number of doctors and hospitals to double inside two years? It's not even magic. It just needs to be done. Find a way. There is an emergency. You don't just get to whine and complain that it is too hard. Your solution doesn't need to be perfect. Far from it, in fact. It just needs to patch the issue so we don't need to do restrictions of any kind. Anybody that claims it is impossible to double or even quadruple healthcare capacity specifically for covid just isn't being creative about it enough. It's not magic. You just make it happen. You have almost infinite resources to do it even up to and including relaxing licensing laws or removing any other political or bureaucratic hurdle.
- lolc 5y ago
  > You just make it happen. Funny you're light on specifics. We talk about a situation where people die if it doesn't happen. So better propose something solid. > almost infinite resources Build hospital tents. > relaxing licensing laws Employ untrained people. > removing any other political or bureaucratic hurdle Eh that tends to happen, once you're in that triage situation. Look you can't will medical care. You have to build it. It takes decades.
throwaway48375 5y ago
If we had started training more nurses at the beginning of this pandemic they would have graduated already.
- Daishiman 5y ago
  You mean, training at home during lockdown?
- dirkt 5y ago
  Paying them more would also help...

standardUser 5y ago

In most of the US life has been back to normal (give or take) for a year or more. A lot of people are still dying, but they are primarily higher risk individuals who have chosen not to get the vaccines that have been free and readily available for about a year. So in terms of goalposts, what exactly is your goal? I'd like to see international travel normalize - it's maybe one of the few restrictions I still feel is constraining me - but there is little my government can do about that.

ineedasername 5y ago

There's been plenty of progress on the issue of not overwhelming the healthcare system. In the areas with high vaccination rates. Most hospitalizations are by the unvaccinated. In those cases where unvaccinated overwhelm the system, that's not the politicians' fault except for the ones also spreading anti-vaxer misinformation.

sanderjd 5y ago

They did make a lot of progress on it: they supported the extremely fast invention and roll out of vaccines that accomplish these goals. People have refused to take those vaccines and have refused to support politicians mandating that people take them. It is thus outside the hands of the politicians at this point, and in the hands of society at large.

dirkt 5y ago

Where I live (which may be different from the previous poster), the health system has not been overwhelmed yet. So guess that counts as success? We didn't have to rig tents to use as hospitals, burn dead bodies on the street, or to pay exorbitant sums for oxygen on the black market, as it has happened in other countries. And if you ask me, yes, that's worth billions, and a bit of self-discipline.