5 ms·

Children are still susceptible to long-term complications from getting covid. Like you said, it's a cost benefit decision, but there's real risks associated wit

Children are still susceptible to long-term complications from getting covid. Like you said, it's a cost benefit decision, but there's real risks associated with children getting covid that seem to be going unacknowledged given that, unlike rabies, millions are going to be infected with covid.

EricE 5y ago
- Sparkle-san 5y ago
  Yes, that's one end of the cost benefit analysis and on the other end the 6,400 cases of MIS-C in children who got covid in the US. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#mis-national-surveillance https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#mis-national-surve...
- kingsloi 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Health_Defense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Health_Defense
- Dylan16807 5y ago
  > Tell this mom that the infinitesimal chance that her child would have from COID side affects was worth it for the problems she is now facing That's an awful way to analyze risk. If you have a one in a million risk of something, and you trade it for a different but nearly-identical one in a million risk for the same thing, and then get the bad outcome, you did not make the wrong choice. Let alone if you traded for a lower risk. Every step you take, you trade out trillions of potential futures. You are always, always creating new risks and destroying old risks. A decision like getting vaccinated is easy to point at and say "oh I shouldn't have done it" but you could just as realistically say "if I hadn't eaten tuna seven weeks ago these problems wouldn't have happened". You do not get to compare the outcome of a specific case, only knowable in hindsight, with the "infinitesimal risk" of the alternative.
  - twofornone 5y ago
    The point is that people need to stop presuming that these vaccines are without risks of their own. This is proven false and the true risk is still uncertain. Officials are only recently acknowledging for example that vaccines can influence monthly cycles - that was just a cooky conspiracy a few months ago. Data collection regarding adverse events was laughably inadequate based on testimony over Pfizer's clinical trial protocol, and their data is still not available for review by anyone other than the FDA, which is known to suffer from regulatory capture. Rosy claims about the vaccines have been repeatedly walked back...the safety of these vaccines is likely overstated.
    - Dylan16807 5y ago
      > The point is that people need to stop presuming that these vaccines are without risks of their own. That's a good point, but it's not the point being made when someone links to a side effect report and implies it was wrong to get vaccinated, as if vaccines need to meet an impossible 0-side-effect standard.
EricE 5y ago
Also at this point EVERYONE is going to be infected by COVID. It's a highly contagious respiratory virus that's not only carried by humans, but animals too. This fantasy that all we have to do is vaccinate everyone and we will be alright really needs to die.
- Sparkle-san 5y ago
  Vaccines are still shown to reduce risk of hospitalization and death even with omicron. So, if everyone is going to get it, wouldn't you rather be more protected when you get it?
  - twofornone 5y ago
    The risk of hospitalization for children is virtually zero. The risk of hospitalization for healthy people under 50 is miniscule.
    - the_why_of_y 5y ago
      Risk of hospitalization for children aged < 5 years with Omicron is quite a bit higher than previous variants. Take a look at the CDC data, compare age groups this year vs. one year earlier. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalization-network https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitali...
      - mikysco 5y ago
        This trend exists because children are being tested for COVID after being admitted to the hospital for entirely unrelated issues (broken bones, etc). They're in the hospital _with_ COVID, not in the hospital _because_ of COVID.
- wolverine876 5y ago
  I hear people say that, but is there research backing it up? I'm a bit dubious because inevitability is a common fall-back position in public affairs, similar to climate change deniers saying that climate change is inevitable so we just have to learn to adjust. They still get what they want, and try to create despair in their opponents.

EricE 5y ago

Sparkle-san 5y ago
Yes, that's one end of the cost benefit analysis and on the other end the 6,400 cases of MIS-C in children who got covid in the US. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#mis-national-surveillance https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#mis-national-surve...
kingsloi 5y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Health_Defense https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children%27s_Health_Defense
Dylan16807 5y ago
> Tell this mom that the infinitesimal chance that her child would have from COID side affects was worth it for the problems she is now facing That's an awful way to analyze risk. If you have a one in a million risk of something, and you trade it for a different but nearly-identical one in a million risk for the same thing, and then get the bad outcome, you did not make the wrong choice. Let alone if you traded for a lower risk. Every step you take, you trade out trillions of potential futures. You are always, always creating new risks and destroying old risks. A decision like getting vaccinated is easy to point at and say "oh I shouldn't have done it" but you could just as realistically say "if I hadn't eaten tuna seven weeks ago these problems wouldn't have happened". You do not get to compare the outcome of a specific case, only knowable in hindsight, with the "infinitesimal risk" of the alternative.
- twofornone 5y ago
  The point is that people need to stop presuming that these vaccines are without risks of their own. This is proven false and the true risk is still uncertain. Officials are only recently acknowledging for example that vaccines can influence monthly cycles - that was just a cooky conspiracy a few months ago. Data collection regarding adverse events was laughably inadequate based on testimony over Pfizer's clinical trial protocol, and their data is still not available for review by anyone other than the FDA, which is known to suffer from regulatory capture. Rosy claims about the vaccines have been repeatedly walked back...the safety of these vaccines is likely overstated.
  - Dylan16807 5y ago
    > The point is that people need to stop presuming that these vaccines are without risks of their own. That's a good point, but it's not the point being made when someone links to a side effect report and implies it was wrong to get vaccinated, as if vaccines need to meet an impossible 0-side-effect standard.

EricE 5y ago

Also at this point EVERYONE is going to be infected by COVID. It's a highly contagious respiratory virus that's not only carried by humans, but animals too. This fantasy that all we have to do is vaccinate everyone and we will be alright really needs to die.

Sparkle-san 5y ago
Vaccines are still shown to reduce risk of hospitalization and death even with omicron. So, if everyone is going to get it, wouldn't you rather be more protected when you get it?
- twofornone 5y ago
  The risk of hospitalization for children is virtually zero. The risk of hospitalization for healthy people under 50 is miniscule.
  - the_why_of_y 5y ago
    Risk of hospitalization for children aged < 5 years with Omicron is quite a bit higher than previous variants. Take a look at the CDC data, compare age groups this year vs. one year earlier. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitalization-network https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#covidnet-hospitali...
    - mikysco 5y ago
      This trend exists because children are being tested for COVID after being admitted to the hospital for entirely unrelated issues (broken bones, etc). They're in the hospital _with_ COVID, not in the hospital _because_ of COVID.
wolverine876 5y ago
I hear people say that, but is there research backing it up? I'm a bit dubious because inevitability is a common fall-back position in public affairs, similar to climate change deniers saying that climate change is inevitable so we just have to learn to adjust. They still get what they want, and try to create despair in their opponents.