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If some states weren't captured by utility monopolies, then solar users would be legally allowed to disconnect from the power grid, potentially solving the firs

If some states weren't captured by utility monopolies, then solar users would be legally allowed to disconnect from the power grid, potentially solving the first issue. It's amazing to me that this is illegal anywhere.

woodruffw 5y ago
As far as I can tell, only Florida makes it actually illegal to disconnect from the power grid[1]. It seems to be legal in every other state, subject to doing paperwork. [1]: https://off-grid-home.com/is-it-legal-to-disconnect-your-home-from-the-electricity-grid/ https://off-grid-home.com/is-it-legal-to-disconnect-your-hom...
- bick_nyers 5y ago
  What if I just didn't pay my bill and the utility company disconnected me from the power grid? Would I be subject to fines and jail time? Absurd, but hey, that sure sounds like Florida. Edit: If you follow the link in the article, it sounds like this was all because of disconnecting the water hookup and has nothing to do with solar power?
  - woodruffw 5y ago
    Purely speculation on my part, but I think the power company disconnecting you for nonpayment probably wouldn't count: they don't physically take the line down, which is the condition that Florida seems to be concerned about.
SubiculumCode 5y ago
Off-grid electricity used to be illegal in California under Title 24. The law required residential homes to have an “interconnection pathway.” However, the law has recently been updated and now specifically allows off-grid electricity.
onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago
I mean - if you aren't using any power - the base charge is usually less than $10/m. This doesn't seem like an absurd amount of money to have power when your system inevitably goes down for a time. Additionally - if you want to sell your house - you're going to lose a fortune taking it off the grid. It wouldn't qualify for most financing. It's not worth saving $10/m for almost any rational/economic person.
- mechanical_bear 5y ago
  Yes, but by disconnecting you aren’t contributing to the tragedy of the commons sort of issue the author talks about. wHaT iF eVeRyOnE dId It?! Everyone isn’t doing it, and ideally more people would be taking advantage of net metering. Until such time that it is causing real issues with the utility companies being able to keep the lights on, this is all a moot point. If it encourages solar adoption, then it’s a good policy, for now. Revisit discussion when it’s actually close to being an issue.
- ZetaZero 5y ago
  California had proposed a rule (NEM 3.0) that would add a grid access charge for solar, which is reasonable. However, the cost for the average solar install would be $50+/month.
  - greendave 5y ago
    FWIW, there's already a $10/mo minimum monthly charge, and a $0.02-$0.03/kWh non-bypassable charge for all energy consumed from the grid in NEM 2.0. So even a net-zero solar customer always pays $10-15/mo or so. The only reason why some solar customers pay zero is that they _significantly_ overproduce (export more than they use) and overproduction is compensated at the wholesale rate (typically $0.03-$0.04/kWh for PG&E), not the retail rate ($0.11-$0.45/kWh for PG&E).
- secabeen 5y ago
  > This doesn't seem like an absurd amount of money to have power when your system inevitably goes down for a time. It's an incredibly low amount of money to have 24x7x365 reliable power. The alternative (off-grid systems) cost tens-to-hundreds of thousands of dollars. $10/m is nothing, and is arguably too low. The solution should be to charge all customers a higher fixed monthly charge for grid access and distribution, and then charge less for the power consumed.

woodruffw 5y ago

As far as I can tell, only Florida makes it actually illegal to disconnect from the power grid[1]. It seems to be legal in every other state, subject to doing paperwork. [1]: https://off-grid-home.com/is-it-legal-to-disconnect-your-home-from-the-electricity-grid/ https://off-grid-home.com/is-it-legal-to-disconnect-your-hom...

bick_nyers 5y ago
What if I just didn't pay my bill and the utility company disconnected me from the power grid? Would I be subject to fines and jail time? Absurd, but hey, that sure sounds like Florida. Edit: If you follow the link in the article, it sounds like this was all because of disconnecting the water hookup and has nothing to do with solar power?
- woodruffw 5y ago
  Purely speculation on my part, but I think the power company disconnecting you for nonpayment probably wouldn't count: they don't physically take the line down, which is the condition that Florida seems to be concerned about.

SubiculumCode 5y ago

Off-grid electricity used to be illegal in California under Title 24. The law required residential homes to have an “interconnection pathway.” However, the law has recently been updated and now specifically allows off-grid electricity.

onlyrealcuzzo 5y ago

I mean - if you aren't using any power - the base charge is usually less than $10/m. This doesn't seem like an absurd amount of money to have power when your system inevitably goes down for a time. Additionally - if you want to sell your house - you're going to lose a fortune taking it off the grid. It wouldn't qualify for most financing. It's not worth saving $10/m for almost any rational/economic person.

mechanical_bear 5y ago
Yes, but by disconnecting you aren’t contributing to the tragedy of the commons sort of issue the author talks about. wHaT iF eVeRyOnE dId It?! Everyone isn’t doing it, and ideally more people would be taking advantage of net metering. Until such time that it is causing real issues with the utility companies being able to keep the lights on, this is all a moot point. If it encourages solar adoption, then it’s a good policy, for now. Revisit discussion when it’s actually close to being an issue.
ZetaZero 5y ago
California had proposed a rule (NEM 3.0) that would add a grid access charge for solar, which is reasonable. However, the cost for the average solar install would be $50+/month.
- greendave 5y ago
  FWIW, there's already a $10/mo minimum monthly charge, and a $0.02-$0.03/kWh non-bypassable charge for all energy consumed from the grid in NEM 2.0. So even a net-zero solar customer always pays $10-15/mo or so. The only reason why some solar customers pay zero is that they _significantly_ overproduce (export more than they use) and overproduction is compensated at the wholesale rate (typically $0.03-$0.04/kWh for PG&E), not the retail rate ($0.11-$0.45/kWh for PG&E).
secabeen 5y ago
> This doesn't seem like an absurd amount of money to have power when your system inevitably goes down for a time. It's an incredibly low amount of money to have 24x7x365 reliable power. The alternative (off-grid systems) cost tens-to-hundreds of thousands of dollars. $10/m is nothing, and is arguably too low. The solution should be to charge all customers a higher fixed monthly charge for grid access and distribution, and then charge less for the power consumed.