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Signal users can give a recurring monthly contribution
- A4ET8a8uTh0 5y agoThere is real value to signal. I am debating contributing myself now that it appears to be a more commonly used application. As long as its not mandatory, I think it should be fine. I am saying that specifically because it was hard enough to 'lure' my family and friends there. They may not see the same value I do.
- elektor 5y agoI use Signal on a daily basis and have started donating. It’s definitely worth the $5/month
- queuep 5y agoSame, it's a small sum, but it should probably cover it for the group chat that I'm in using signal.
- shafyy 5y agoI also started donating €10/month. I figured that I pay a lot more for other services that I use far less often and provide me far less value, so why not pay for this. Also got me to think about this topic a bit more and write this blog post: https://canolcer.com/post/pay-for-internet-stuff/ https://canolcer.com/post/pay-for-internet-stuff/
- pbasista 5y ago> I pay a lot more for other services that I use far less often and provide me far less value, so why not pay for this Is that the only reason why you would like to pay for this service? It seems irrational to me to justify an expense merely by the existence of other expenses.
- imwillofficial 5y agoHate to break it to you, people are not rational. Did you read the blog post? Not reading it… Seems irrational.
- shafyy 5y agoThe rationality is: I get a lot of value, so it's worth my money. I just compare it to other services I pay for that have no free option (e.g. Netflix) but provide less value, so it's a reason for me to pay for Signal because I want them to keep existing and improve the product. Is that irrational?
- ckastner 5y agoI'd do this in a heartbeat if they would get rid of MobileCoin first.
- elektor 5y agoThat’s partly why I donate. If they get direct funds they’re hopefully less likely to turn to these scammy cryptocoins to keep the lights on
- iqanq 5y agoWhat you don't realise is that they will keep your donation AND their crypto.
- ckastner 5y agoThat already happened, though. I'd really, really like to support Signal, but unless they distance themselves from MobileCoin again, I can only assume they are in on it to a certain degree.
- CodeGlitch 5y agoI just don't get all the hate for cryptocurrencies around here. I benefit from using both Brave and Signal without being subjected to (scammy) adverts, and I just ignore the cryptocurrencies (you can too!!).. For people who are willing to take the risks with MobileCoin and the like, why not give them that choice?
- JumpCrisscross 5y ago> why not give them that choice? That’s fine. But don’t ask me for donations on top. Sending donation dollars to fund developers pumping a coin is a strange use of resources.
- CodeGlitch 5y ago> Sending donation dollars to fund developers pumping a coin is a strange use of resources. Is it? Perhaps those developers will come up with a coin that isn't so scummy? Or come at it from a different direction which satisfies your worries.
- Tepix 5y agoI'd argue that $5/month is quite high. Not because Signal isn't useful, but because the actual incurred cost per user is much, much lower. Of course, not everyone is going to pay. But if Signal were to ask users to pay, say $10 per year, i'm sure there'd be a lot more payers.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- hliyan 5y agoI'm in a third world country and even I would contribute $10 a year. I already contribute to Wikipedia on occasion. Making it monthly feels like too much of an obligation.
- polski-g 5y ago
- linuxlizard 5y agoPlease continue to contribute to Wikipedia. It's one place in the internet I can go and not be bombarded with ads.
- toyg 5y agoTrue, but you'll periodically be bombarded by donation drives instead... Money ruins everything, sadly. Where's my barter system...
- skyyler 5y agoI’m fine with that. Donation drives aren’t misleading. Donation drives don’t use shadow profiles. Donation drives don’t impact content. Donation drives don’t convince my grandma that she needs to send the IRS Target gift cards.
- dev_snd 5y agoI was waiting a long time for the possibility of easily paying for signal. This reminded me that I should also start to pay for my FOSS password manager. Both are easily worth a few bucks a month and I couldn't live without them.
- rootsudo 5y agoMy biggest worry is donationg == ties you to the messaging platform, granted that your telecom/isp and most likely operating system on phone knows you have it installed via the play/app stores is more indicative of something sinister. then they link this paper - https://eprint.iacr.org/2019/1416.pdf https://eprint.iacr.org/2019/1416.pdf which, on one level is great - they're open about the account credential scheme they wish to do. On the other level, it's a level of complexity. Yes, "nothing to fear, nothing to hide" and it's on your phone daily - and eh. https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360057625692-In-app-Payments https://support.signal.org/hc/en-us/articles/360057625692-In... Then with this in app payment - the only supported crypto is mobilecoin. https://www.mobilecoin.com/ https://www.mobilecoin.com/ Granted, I don't know much about it, and I do understand the on-ramp for bitcoin/monero/eth/ltc is not as easy and probably as much tracable. So, after all this banter, it just comes down to being anonymous is a bit hard indeed. :) Not against paying, not against supporting signal, it's just it is a tricky problem all around.
- mtmail 5y agoWhatsApp used to cost 99 cents per year https://www.siliconvalley.com/2016/01/18/whatsapp-drops-99-cent-subscription-fee/ https://www.siliconvalley.com/2016/01/18/whatsapp-drops-99-c... I can't remember ever paying.
- codingkev 5y agoEarly adopters got life long free access... until eventually even the 99 cents was dropped.
- egberts1 5y agoDropped because WhatsApp now can mine your metadata and make off like a robber at a convenience store.
- bilal4hmed 5y agoI've paid for it once, I can see the receipt in Google play
- aunty_helen 5y agoThis was early days when WhatsApp was still searching for a business model. That business model turned out to be acquire critical mass and then be acquired, but I recall people talking about how WhatsApp was hemorrhaging money in the process.
- dfkajglag 5y agoReminder that Signal server source code is not fully released and the app is heavily dependent on google services to operate. Signal also takes measures against third party or unofficial apps. Whatever you say about privacy Signal is not an ally of user freedom.
- toomuchtodo 5y agoThese are not requirements for most messaging app users. I just want secure messaging. I don’t care if it’s open or interoperable. WhatsApp if it was run by a non profit.
- iqanq 5y agoThat's why I simply use whatsapp.
- nicce 5y agoTechnically it is not very secure. It leaks the most interesting stuff (metadata). People think that only message content matters.
- 323 5y agoWhat metadata is it leaking? Any link?
- nicce 5y agoEverything they can possibly get with the app. Only message content is E2EE. https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/privacy-policy https://www.whatsapp.com/legal/privacy-policy https://faq.whatsapp.com/general/security-and-privacy/end-to-end-encryption https://faq.whatsapp.com/general/security-and-privacy/end-to...
- gefhfffh 5y agoDidn't know leaking meta data was a requirement for most of the people ;-)
- aunty_helen 5y agoI want nice things, so I’m going to donate. All those times when I’ve thought I would pay for service X if it meant not dealing with shitty dark pattern Y. Signal has kept their side of the deal, so now’s the time to pony up the dough. This and stack exchange would top the list of things I’m willing to pay for.
- WilTimSon 5y agoHas it? It kept source code outdated for a year while implementing support for an altcoin that their ex-CEO stands to profit from. All the while users were asking to implement stuff that's actually been requested for years. I like Signal as a product but my opinion of the company making it has soured pretty substantially.
- aunty_helen 5y agoFor me, the service just works and I would get good value out of it at twice the cost. So it’s a good deal.
- imwillofficial 5y ago“users were asking to implement stuff that's actually been requested for years.” This is true of every app in the history of apps
- BrainsPachanga 5y ago“Non profit messenger with limited resources is not working as if it had unlimited resources, so I won’t donate”
- WilTimSon 5y ago"Non profit messenger's CEO prioritizes implementing his coin to gain an estimated $150 milion, hiding the app's source code from users, ignoring all other aspects of development, so I won't donate." You seemed to miss the part where Marlinspike got richer off of Mobilecoin, throwing the company's resources at implementing it, instead of working on the product.
- _wldu 5y agoIs there a market for a secure messaging app (similar to Signal) that does not rely on personally identifying information (phone numbers and emails) or is that too fringe?
- reacharavindh 5y agoThis is what I wish Signal was. A simple secure messenger that works with a username and not tied to an identity like phone number :-( Like HN...... Now that I'd happily pay for.
- _wldu 5y agoYep. Me too. The network meta-data is always present (IP, src, dst, date, time, etc.). Law enforcement could use that to find criminal actors committing crimes on the app. But having such an app would allow law abiding individuals to communicate privately and securely without disclosing their personally identifying data to anyone.
- 7steps2much 5y agoHave you had a look at Threema?
- 323 5y agoThere was once Tor Messenger, but now it's dead, so I guess there is not a market for such a thing: https://blog.torproject.org/sunsetting-tor-messenger/ https://blog.torproject.org/sunsetting-tor-messenger/
- agentdrtran 5y agoMatrix is probably the closet alternative but it's harder to use than Signal (lost your password? say goodbye to your messages!).
- _wldu 5y agoYes. Without an email or phone number there would be no way to do an account recovery, but perhaps some other clever solutions (allow some of your contacts to reset for you, or sign a message with your key, etc.) may be an option.
- stav-stav-cc 5y agoI know I got to start learning to pay if I don't want to end up with another FB or GOOG in the future. $5/month for a communication app, that is in essence a daily driver, is reasonable for most European/North America users. Having said that, no-one in my circle uses Signal :/
- peatmoss 5y agoI decided a few years ago that Signal was the closest thing to a good cross-platform messaging client that mortals could be expected to use. I sent an email to my most frequently texted contacts asking them to consider installing it and using it. It’s not a huge cross-section of my friends and family that uses it, but I message a portion of my social network graph every day.
- cs702 5y agoIf a non-profit organization like Signal (whose goal is to protect free expression and privacy) were to offer a service with integrated messaging, contacts, and calendars that synchronize reliably over devices , I know of multiple teams that would love to leave their existing provider of those services -- and they are willing to pay a nice annual fee per user.
- alexnewman 5y agoI will pay signal when they let me pay in mobilecoin
- Waterluvian 5y agoI am fundamentally not interested in managing monthly bills for things. You won’t win me by asking for recurring donations. Just ask me for ten bucks for some one-time symbolic upgrade. Also I’ve recently been back on the App Store for the first time in a long while. WHAT IS GOING ON?! The gall for simple, offline only apps like a little piano keyboard to want monthly fees for continued use. There isn’t even an illusion of continued feature adds or some recurring service.
- toyg 5y agoCapitalism gonna capitalism.
- baxtr 5y agoSo you don't have any insurances?
- cryptos 5y agoAn insurances covers risk over time. That is a completly different thing than a little app that hardly gets any new features and doesn't require expensive server infrastructure to run.
- julianwachholz 5y agoWe pay most of these large bills once a year and as a thank you we get a 2% discount or alternatively they don't charge us extra for each month's bill.
- JumpCrisscross 5y agoI do wish more services permitted annual or multi-year billing.
- Waterluvian 5y agoObviously I’m not saying I don’t have any recurring fees. But I’m not about to have fifty more recurring fees because every app wants ARR.
- gaius_baltar 5y agoThey should sell the ability of creating an account not attached to a phone number. Pay $5, get a code that allows creating a single account, enter the code somewhere in the app to allow using a user name in place of the phone. This limits spam and, as this code can also be sent to another person, there is a way to hide the relationship between payer and final user. No need for cryptocoins, NFTs, or other stupid things.
- defaultprimate 5y agoRequiring a phone number is literally my only complaint about Signal, I used to just use a Google Voice number but then I learned about TextNow and have been migrating away from Google as much as possible https://www.textnow.com/how-it-works https://www.textnow.com/how-it-works
- zaik 5y agoMy other complaint is that it's just another walled garden.
- onychomys 5y agoThat's true of all messaging apps besides base text messages, though, isn't it? It's not like I can send a message on facebook messenger to somebody who reads it in telegram.
- Tepix 5y agoRCS / JOIN is an open standard, but it lacks important features like E2E
- kitkat_new 5y agoyou don't seem to know Matrix and XMPP
- defaultprimate 5y agoIt's very difficult not to be if you want truly secure messaging. It seems unlikely that big tech and telecom corporations, whose lifeblood is personal data harvesting, or government, with surveillance states becoming the global norm, are going to agree to adopt a genuinely secure end to end encrypted messaging standard or protocol on the best devices ever to facilitate their practices.
- jigarjain 5y ago> Do Apple or Google get a cut of my contribution? - No. Can someone please explain how come Google/Apple won't be taking a cut in this situation? Is it because they have a special deal with Signal?
- w-m 5y agoI'm happy to give my 5$/month, as I'm using Signal daily. When moving away from WhatsApp it seemed like the best option for me and my circle of friends. I can only hope that some of the money would be used to hire a developer to fix some of the issues I'm experiencing, some of which are quite annoying: - Signal killing the whole iPad and iPhone battery in a matter of hours while running in the background, on some days - terribly slow synchronization between phone and Desktop, catching up on a few hundred messages takes minutes - awful UX in video calls: microphone button and camera button work in opposite ways (graying out turns one on, the other off) - awful UX in video calls: if you have multiple people, the camera views are cut into comically wrong letterboxes, often you wont see the person at all anymore - no giphy on the Desktop client (really, why?) What would be the best place to voice that these issues are important to me, GitHub issues?
- manwe150 5y agoMaking the colors of buttons consistent seems like something that could be done as a pull request. I think all of their code is open source?
- egberts1 5y agothats why i turned off background refresh option on iOS. Works well with notification instead.
- LordAtlas 5y ago> - terribly slow synchronization between phone and Desktop, catching up on a few hundred messages takes minutes I agree with everything you wrote. In principle, I'd like to support Signal but their UX is terrible for such things. Tried using it for a group and it was so painful. My phone was constantly warning me about it chewing up battery, and message sync between the desktop app was like it was using a 14.4K modem from 1994. I simply could not use it meaningfully for group messaging. Ultimately we went back to Whatsapp. But hey, at least they fixed the Fisher Price background colours for group messages. Here in India, everyone uses Whatsapp. There was a brief time during the Whatsapp terms of service brouhaha that a bunch of people I know said they'd move to Signal, and they've all slowly moved back to Whatsapp because that's what everyone in the country uses. Seriously, it's practically infrastructure here.
- vaseem 5y agoThanks for the friendly reminder to donate. Signal needs to stick around. I am also open to seeing some ads on the platform if that's what it takes to keep it alive and well.
- gefhfffh 5y agoI hope it doesn't stick around and goes down with WhatsApp at some point. I don't like messengers striving for quasi monopolies
- jigarjain 5y agoThe first line says > Signal is a nonprofit with no advertisers or investors, sustained only by the people who use and value it. Wasn't the case that Brian Acton had invested $50 million in Signal?
- pliu 5y agoSignal Foundation is a non-profit. It is my understanding this is a 0% interest loan, not an investment. I'm no expert, but after examining their 2019 balance sheet, it seems to me like they are well on their way to paying it back. I guess the salaries are competitive in San Francisco. Spicy! https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/824506840 https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/824...
- barbazoo 5y agoMATTHEW CHEN (SOFTWARE DEVELOPER) $585,320 MOXIE MARLINSPIKE (DIRECTOR/CEO OF SIGNAL MESSENGER) $575,275 SCOTT NONNENBERG (SOFTWARE DEVELOPER) $523,376 JOSH LUND (SOFTWARE DEVELOPER) $522,412 TREVOR PERRIN (SOFTWARE DEVELOPER) $514,986 MICHAEL KIRK (SOFTWARE DEVELOPER) $504,466 ARUNA HARDER (CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER) $315,733 ----------- Holy moly, more than half a million bucks each except for the COO.
- james-redwood 5y agoI don’t mind a subscription model provided it’s a very useful application with few competitors in terms of features. $5 each month is nothing in the grander scheme of things.
- cascom 5y agoI have no problem donating - I’ve had it with monthly subscriptions - last thing I need is another one…
- Mortiffer 5y agoarn't they good on funding now that they integrated their monero copy into signal ? https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/mobilecoin/ https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/mobilecoin/ ...
- julianwachholz 5y agoI bought a one time boost badge on Jan 12th and got a notification 3 hours later that it had expired. Still to this day no response from Signal support. Every message I send is either ignored or their bot auto-closes the ticket claiming my Signal version is out of date (happened both when sending an email from the BETA version of the app and from their own website without specifying any version at all)
- tharne 5y agoI always surprises me how few people are willing to pay $5 a month for a piece of software they use everyday, but will gladly spend $3 a day on a Starbucks Coffee or happily drop $8 on a single beer at bar.
- Tepix 5y agoFor me it's the opposite.
- MrDresden 5y agoI had previously donated 2$ monthly for around 1.5 years through PayPal (through their webpage) and just recently noticed the badge system. Seeing that the minimum was 5$ left me with a bit of a bad taste in my mouth. I know, no one is forced to pay and 5$ for the service is not at all much. But what can I say. It left a bad taste in my mouth.
- imwillofficial 5y ago$3 would be worth it just to save time loggin in to PayPal to donate each month. (Or is there an automated way?)
- MrDresden 5y agoAutomated, setup through their webpage.
- nanna 5y agoImportant to remember that Brian Acton recently took over from Moxie as CEO of Signal, and he was pushing for a user-funded financial model back at WhatsApp. Signal has had a donation system for a while, but it wasnt exactly explicit and I imagine had a very low conversion rate. I think it's fair enough that Acton would want some return to his $100 million(?) Loan to Signal. But I think more than that this is about creating a business model where users sustain Signal's development and maintenance, rather than Signal sustaining itself through ad tech, just as WhatsApp should have done. In other words, Acton is creating the app WhatsApp should have been. And that's to be applauded
- gefhfffh 5y agoImo WhatsApp also should have been interoperable and without phone number obligation. WhatsApp basically killed interoperable chat by jumping on phones and building a near-monopoly.
- seomint 5y agoHappily giving $10/mo. for this important Internet resource. That goes for Wikipedia too. If we want nice things those of us that can afford it should contribute. imho.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- zeroping 5y agoIt makes sense. I understand that developing this stuff takes money. This reminded me to donate to Matrix.org.
- inter_netuser 5y agoNothing screams privacy more than demanding your phone number, attaching it to a recurring conventional payment rail and demanding your entire address book. /s
- gigatexal 5y ago"Do Apple or Google get a cut of my contribution? No." How?
- tmsbrg 5y agoI'm willing to donate, but I don't have a Google account linked to my device, so Google pay is out of the question. Maybe Mobilecoin will be an alternative in the future that doesn't depend on Google services.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- napkin 5y agoI would pay if they provided an arm/aarch64 build for Signal Desktop.
- _8j50 5y agoThe day I can move my data/backup between android and iOS I will contribute.
- stereoradonc 5y agoOh No! Thats a terrible waste of money. They have enough millionaires bankrolling them (and the state-backed intelligence agencies).