4 ms·

I think there needs to be a strong fiscal disincentive against owning houses for investment. Houses need to be lived in, preferably by the owner. I'm all for a

by mcv 5y ago

I think there needs to be a strong fiscal disincentive against owning houses for investment. Houses need to be lived in, preferably by the owner. I'm all for a punitive tax on empty houses or houses with ridiculously high rent.

tut-urut-utut 5y ago
One step forward would be to just disallow any tax deductions for renting. Next step, increase taxes on rented or empty housing. In a few years, the market would settle with much more affordable prices for buying. But we still would have a problem that building new houses would stop to a halt due to low ROI, and renting market would heat again. For that, I'm not sure how to solve this.
- pmorici 5y ago
  Wether a house is rented or owned by the person occupying it doesn’t effect the basic supply/ demand dynamics of the market. Punitive taxes on landlords isn’t going to cause housing prices to come down because the cause of high prices is a housing shortage. There is no indication supply is being artificially depressed by people letting houses sit unoccupied.
  - BizarroLand 5y ago
    There are more than 40,000 vacant homes in San Francisco, report says: https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/how-many-vacant-homes-are-there-in-San-Francisco-16822916.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/how-many-vacant-homes... Took me less than a minute to search this.
    - SaiUEF9U6gDXHyW 5y ago
      - BizarroLand 5y ago
        [flagged]
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
        SaiUEF9U6gDXHyW 5y ago
    - pandaman 5y ago
      The report [1] the article is referencing is talking about housing units so it's not just homes but apartments (and possibly rooms that can be rented as a unit?). Furthermore, the very same report gives the distribution of the vacant units, of which only 21000 could be possibly considered "hoarded" (this is assuming nobody does repairs and renovations, all rentals go up for rent as soon as the previous tenants move out, there is no corporate housing, no housing is involved in legal proceedings and the buyers move to the new house on the closing day), which makes 5% of total housing in SF. Does not look like a huge hoarding problem to me. [1] https://sfgov.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=10441217&GUID=3331928E-0574-4AEA-90DB-35D04F638EDB https://sfgov.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=10441217&amp...
shiftpgdn 5y ago
They already have this in Texas (homestead exemption) and Texas is one of the hottest markets for single family rentals. They are building entire suburbs that are rental homes only. Millennials as a group don’t want to live in apartments anymore because of the effects of Covid 19 causing people to be locked into their homes.
- StevePerkins 5y ago
  Same thing in Georgia (punitive taxes on any residential property beyond your primary home), and Atlanta is still one of the hottest housing markets in the nation. Just pass those costs on to your tenants.
- escapedmoose 5y ago
  I don't think homestead exemption is big enough to realistically expect a broad shift in behavior.
maxerickson 5y ago
Build lots of housing so that the market isn't demand driven.
- readthenotes1 5y ago
  Have you seen the price of timber lately? (I know a family that opened a concrete plant in 2016. They are now multimillionaires whereas before they were scrambling to keep afloat)
  - hedora 5y ago
    The important thing to remember about current timber prices is that our punitive lumber tariffs are the only thing protecting us from the red threat from the North. Canadians sure are a crafty lot.
closeparen 5y ago
Being able to rent a place to live is good, actually.
- escapedmoose 5y ago
  But not nearly as good as being able to buy it (assuming the single-family, multi-year home that the author is describing). Communities need both options, but the current climate leans far too heavily toward renting in situations when buying would be better for everyone.
  - Daishiman 5y ago
    It's the opposite; mortgages are extremely cheap versus rent.
    - escapedmoose 5y ago
      You must be referring to monthly payments, which are one of the smaller hurdles in the path to homeownership.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
- duped 5y ago
  Being unable to own a place to live is bad
- hansvm 5y ago
  The usual argument I see for renting being good is that up-front barriers make home buying hard for a lot of people and that transaction costs make it impractical for short tenures. If those were independently solved somehow would renting still have notable advantages?
  - closeparen 5y ago
    * Other investments may outperform home equity, even taking into account imputed rent, especially if homes are sustainably affordable (read: have no return). * Other investments may be less correlated with your earning potential. * Risk of being underwater. * Risk of an expensive, unexpected maintenance or repair item. * Chores you are no longer paying for, you have to do yourself.

by mcv 5y ago

tut-urut-utut 5y ago

One step forward would be to just disallow any tax deductions for renting. Next step, increase taxes on rented or empty housing. In a few years, the market would settle with much more affordable prices for buying. But we still would have a problem that building new houses would stop to a halt due to low ROI, and renting market would heat again. For that, I'm not sure how to solve this.

pmorici 5y ago
Wether a house is rented or owned by the person occupying it doesn’t effect the basic supply/ demand dynamics of the market. Punitive taxes on landlords isn’t going to cause housing prices to come down because the cause of high prices is a housing shortage. There is no indication supply is being artificially depressed by people letting houses sit unoccupied.
- BizarroLand 5y ago
  There are more than 40,000 vacant homes in San Francisco, report says: https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/how-many-vacant-homes-are-there-in-San-Francisco-16822916.php https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/how-many-vacant-homes... Took me less than a minute to search this.
  - SaiUEF9U6gDXHyW 5y ago
    - BizarroLand 5y ago
      [flagged]
      - deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
      - SaiUEF9U6gDXHyW 5y ago
  - pandaman 5y ago
    The report [1] the article is referencing is talking about housing units so it's not just homes but apartments (and possibly rooms that can be rented as a unit?). Furthermore, the very same report gives the distribution of the vacant units, of which only 21000 could be possibly considered "hoarded" (this is assuming nobody does repairs and renovations, all rentals go up for rent as soon as the previous tenants move out, there is no corporate housing, no housing is involved in legal proceedings and the buyers move to the new house on the closing day), which makes 5% of total housing in SF. Does not look like a huge hoarding problem to me. [1] https://sfgov.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=10441217&GUID=3331928E-0574-4AEA-90DB-35D04F638EDB https://sfgov.legistar.com/View.ashx?M=F&ID=10441217&amp...

shiftpgdn 5y ago

They already have this in Texas (homestead exemption) and Texas is one of the hottest markets for single family rentals. They are building entire suburbs that are rental homes only. Millennials as a group don’t want to live in apartments anymore because of the effects of Covid 19 causing people to be locked into their homes.

StevePerkins 5y ago
Same thing in Georgia (punitive taxes on any residential property beyond your primary home), and Atlanta is still one of the hottest housing markets in the nation. Just pass those costs on to your tenants.
escapedmoose 5y ago
I don't think homestead exemption is big enough to realistically expect a broad shift in behavior.

maxerickson 5y ago

Build lots of housing so that the market isn't demand driven.

readthenotes1 5y ago
Have you seen the price of timber lately? (I know a family that opened a concrete plant in 2016. They are now multimillionaires whereas before they were scrambling to keep afloat)
- hedora 5y ago
  The important thing to remember about current timber prices is that our punitive lumber tariffs are the only thing protecting us from the red threat from the North. Canadians sure are a crafty lot.

closeparen 5y ago

Being able to rent a place to live is good, actually.

escapedmoose 5y ago
But not nearly as good as being able to buy it (assuming the single-family, multi-year home that the author is describing). Communities need both options, but the current climate leans far too heavily toward renting in situations when buying would be better for everyone.
- Daishiman 5y ago
  It's the opposite; mortgages are extremely cheap versus rent.
  - escapedmoose 5y ago
    You must be referring to monthly payments, which are one of the smaller hurdles in the path to homeownership.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
duped 5y ago
Being unable to own a place to live is bad
hansvm 5y ago
The usual argument I see for renting being good is that up-front barriers make home buying hard for a lot of people and that transaction costs make it impractical for short tenures. If those were independently solved somehow would renting still have notable advantages?
- closeparen 5y ago
  * Other investments may outperform home equity, even taking into account imputed rent, especially if homes are sustainably affordable (read: have no return). * Other investments may be less correlated with your earning potential. * Risk of being underwater. * Risk of an expensive, unexpected maintenance or repair item. * Chores you are no longer paying for, you have to do yourself.