7 ms·

There are things more valuable than money. Not only are there a lot of legal problems with stealing that money, there are a lot of social problems too. This i

by fallat 5y ago

There are things more valuable than money. Not only are there a lot of legal problems with stealing that money, there are a lot of social problems too. This is where philosophy comes in and helps the situation. You find the employees who wouldn't steal because they believe that money isn't everything.

oblio 5y ago
Good luck with that! Plenty of honest people would blink when hearing about that kind of money, let alone all the dishonest ones that would try to persuade you that they're honest. It's life-changing money.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- fallat 5y ago
  No need for luck. There are already a surplus of examples of this. Look at the massive amount of extremely high impact open source projects that don't have malware embedded in them. Yeah it's life-changing if money is your reason for living. I recommend you read a bit from Seneca the Young to understand where I'm coming from.
  - enkid 5y ago
    The problem the above posters are referring is not that they feel life is about money or even that most people feel life is about money. The problem is reliably telling the difference between people that feel that way from those that don't. There's no recruitment process that can possibly determine whether someone, when faced with the prospect of walking away with $300M or not would make the right choice. It's just too extreme to be able to simulate. And you have to get it right 100% of the time. If you have 100 employees and get it wrong 1% of the time, you still have a problem.
    - fddhjjj 5y ago
      Does the current evidence noted by fallat — the massive amount of extremely high impact open source projects that don't have malware embedded in them — suggest the error rate is much much lower that 1%?
      - enkid 5y ago
        Open source projects are not a good point of reference because by their very nature they invite external validation. If you are trying to steal $300M, you don't tell people before hand that you are going to do it. There also a difference between the money being right there, only one step away from being yours and infecting open source software with the possibility of maybe stealing something in some company that may or may not use your software in a way that would allow theft months or years after you submitted an update. Edit: After doing some research, it appears that claims that open source doesn't fall victim to this problem are factually incorrect. [0] [0] https://blog.sonatype.com/open-source-attacks-on-the-rise-top-8-malicious-packages-found-in-npm https://blog.sonatype.com/open-source-attacks-on-the-rise-to...
        fddhjjj 5y ago
        No one made the claim that open source universally don’t fall victim to dishonesty. We were discussing the rate.
  - romeros 5y ago
    >> I recommend you read a bit from Seneca the Young to understand where I'm coming from. A better recommendation is to actually close down the computer and put away the mobile phone and actually go out from the bedroom and interact with real people. This way, one gets an idea about how the real world works and see the true nature of human traits and behaviors. If you just sit at home and read Arthur Schopenhauer, Marcus Aurelius and Plato you will build a mental model of reality that doesn't exist in the real world. Your naivety would show and you will be taken advantage of without even you knowing it. Do both. Philosophy to improve yourself but also step outside the home to understand how real life works. Best of both worlds!
    - fallat 5y ago
      I said that in the most sincerity. I find of all the stoics, Seneca is by far the most based in the real world. All I feel is your comment degrading me. I recommend Seneca exactly because I interact with real people and feel his written thoughts express very well why there are many people who can work on a project worth millions and not steal anything. Sorry if it came off any other way, really.
pmlnr 5y ago
"money" We're still talking magical beans here.
- danuker 5y ago
  Magical beans or not, the market pays for them.
rasz 5y ago
>This is where philosophy comes in and helps the situation. You find the employees who wouldn't steal because they believe that money isn't everything. Yes, those mythical spherical virgin monks in a vacuum. Apple has been very vocal about their moral and just employees superiority. Apple paid millions to woman after repair workers stole nude images of her from her phone and posted them on her Facebook https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-settled-lawsuit-womans-nudes-leaked-iphone-repair-workers-2021-6?IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-settled-lawsuit-womans... Authorized repair caught using knockoff screens in customers phones https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETVJDUfZ5TM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETVJDUfZ5TM And the end of the day we are all humans.
- CryptoPunk 5y ago
  The vast majority of people, if they are already financial comfortable, would forego opportunities to steal and rob, even when the sums that doing so could garner them are astronomical. Those who lack this moral constitution are generally not entrusted with the kind of responsibility that would allow them to do grievous harm to society. If this wasn't the case, society would fall apart very quickly.
  - 300bps 5y ago
    The vast majority of people...would forego opportunities to steal and rob I agree with you 100%. The scary thing though is that if 99% of people wouldn't steal, just imagine how much damage those 3.3 million people in the U.S. can do. (That's 1% of the U.S. Population)
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - toss1 5y ago
      Yup, considering that the proportion of psychopaths in the general population is above 1%, and in organizations over 12% [0]... [0] https://sapienjournal.org/latest-estimate-of-psychopathy-in-the-general-population/ https://sapienjournal.org/latest-estimate-of-psychopathy-in-...
lmc 5y ago
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you don't get into cryptocurrency work to make the world a better place. Or rather, those that do should not be trusted around secure code. /snark
moron4hire 5y ago
> find the employees who wouldn't steal because they believe that money isn't everything. Rarer than gold plated unicorns in the crypto sphere
api 5y ago
It's going to be harder in the cryptocurrency ecosystem where everything is a scam anyway.
ejb999 5y ago
>>You find the employees who wouldn't steal because they believe that money isn't everything. Or just the ones that want to be able to sleep at night without worrying about that knock on the door by the feds in a midnight raid. Some people could live with that stress - I know I couldn't.
pfooti 5y ago
The problem at hand, though, is that the only reason I can see people working on crypto is precisely for the money. I mean sure, there's some small number of purists out there, but I get DeFi recruiter emails all the time. The only thing they have going for them is compensation. I would suspect that a large number of engineers working in crypto are heavily motivated by money above all.
malermeister 5y ago
The employees who think money isn't everything... and decide to join a company that is about money and money only?

by fallat 5y ago

oblio 5y ago

Good luck with that! Plenty of honest people would blink when hearing about that kind of money, let alone all the dishonest ones that would try to persuade you that they're honest. It's life-changing money.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
fallat 5y ago
No need for luck. There are already a surplus of examples of this. Look at the massive amount of extremely high impact open source projects that don't have malware embedded in them. Yeah it's life-changing if money is your reason for living. I recommend you read a bit from Seneca the Young to understand where I'm coming from.
- enkid 5y ago
  The problem the above posters are referring is not that they feel life is about money or even that most people feel life is about money. The problem is reliably telling the difference between people that feel that way from those that don't. There's no recruitment process that can possibly determine whether someone, when faced with the prospect of walking away with $300M or not would make the right choice. It's just too extreme to be able to simulate. And you have to get it right 100% of the time. If you have 100 employees and get it wrong 1% of the time, you still have a problem.
  - fddhjjj 5y ago
    Does the current evidence noted by fallat — the massive amount of extremely high impact open source projects that don't have malware embedded in them — suggest the error rate is much much lower that 1%?
    - enkid 5y ago
      Open source projects are not a good point of reference because by their very nature they invite external validation. If you are trying to steal $300M, you don't tell people before hand that you are going to do it. There also a difference between the money being right there, only one step away from being yours and infecting open source software with the possibility of maybe stealing something in some company that may or may not use your software in a way that would allow theft months or years after you submitted an update. Edit: After doing some research, it appears that claims that open source doesn't fall victim to this problem are factually incorrect. [0] [0] https://blog.sonatype.com/open-source-attacks-on-the-rise-top-8-malicious-packages-found-in-npm https://blog.sonatype.com/open-source-attacks-on-the-rise-to...
      - fddhjjj 5y ago
        No one made the claim that open source universally don’t fall victim to dishonesty. We were discussing the rate.
- romeros 5y ago
  >> I recommend you read a bit from Seneca the Young to understand where I'm coming from. A better recommendation is to actually close down the computer and put away the mobile phone and actually go out from the bedroom and interact with real people. This way, one gets an idea about how the real world works and see the true nature of human traits and behaviors. If you just sit at home and read Arthur Schopenhauer, Marcus Aurelius and Plato you will build a mental model of reality that doesn't exist in the real world. Your naivety would show and you will be taken advantage of without even you knowing it. Do both. Philosophy to improve yourself but also step outside the home to understand how real life works. Best of both worlds!
  - fallat 5y ago
    I said that in the most sincerity. I find of all the stoics, Seneca is by far the most based in the real world. All I feel is your comment degrading me. I recommend Seneca exactly because I interact with real people and feel his written thoughts express very well why there are many people who can work on a project worth millions and not steal anything. Sorry if it came off any other way, really.

pmlnr 5y ago

"money" We're still talking magical beans here.

danuker 5y ago
Magical beans or not, the market pays for them.

rasz 5y ago

>This is where philosophy comes in and helps the situation. You find the employees who wouldn't steal because they believe that money isn't everything. Yes, those mythical spherical virgin monks in a vacuum. Apple has been very vocal about their moral and just employees superiority. Apple paid millions to woman after repair workers stole nude images of her from her phone and posted them on her Facebook https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-settled-lawsuit-womans-nudes-leaked-iphone-repair-workers-2021-6?IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/apple-settled-lawsuit-womans... Authorized repair caught using knockoff screens in customers phones https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETVJDUfZ5TM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETVJDUfZ5TM And the end of the day we are all humans.

CryptoPunk 5y ago
The vast majority of people, if they are already financial comfortable, would forego opportunities to steal and rob, even when the sums that doing so could garner them are astronomical. Those who lack this moral constitution are generally not entrusted with the kind of responsibility that would allow them to do grievous harm to society. If this wasn't the case, society would fall apart very quickly.
- 300bps 5y ago
  The vast majority of people...would forego opportunities to steal and rob I agree with you 100%. The scary thing though is that if 99% of people wouldn't steal, just imagine how much damage those 3.3 million people in the U.S. can do. (That's 1% of the U.S. Population)
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - toss1 5y ago
    Yup, considering that the proportion of psychopaths in the general population is above 1%, and in organizations over 12% [0]... [0] https://sapienjournal.org/latest-estimate-of-psychopathy-in-the-general-population/ https://sapienjournal.org/latest-estimate-of-psychopathy-in-...

lmc 5y ago

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you don't get into cryptocurrency work to make the world a better place. Or rather, those that do should not be trusted around secure code. /snark

moron4hire 5y ago

> find the employees who wouldn't steal because they believe that money isn't everything. Rarer than gold plated unicorns in the crypto sphere

api 5y ago

It's going to be harder in the cryptocurrency ecosystem where everything is a scam anyway.

ejb999 5y ago

>>You find the employees who wouldn't steal because they believe that money isn't everything. Or just the ones that want to be able to sleep at night without worrying about that knock on the door by the feds in a midnight raid. Some people could live with that stress - I know I couldn't.

pfooti 5y ago

The problem at hand, though, is that the only reason I can see people working on crypto is precisely for the money. I mean sure, there's some small number of purists out there, but I get DeFi recruiter emails all the time. The only thing they have going for them is compensation. I would suspect that a large number of engineers working in crypto are heavily motivated by money above all.

malermeister 5y ago

The employees who think money isn't everything... and decide to join a company that is about money and money only?