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I mostly disagree with this. To quote Joel Spolsky [1]: > Every time you provide an option, you’re asking the user to make a decision. At least the author dif

by cletus 5y ago

I mostly disagree with this. To quote Joel Spolsky [1]: > Every time you provide an option, you’re asking the user to make a decision. At least the author differentiates on types of settings: > There’s a difference between product settings that a product needs to get right by default and preferences that designers deliberately shouldn’t have a strong opinion on. I can get on board with separating cosmetic choices and non-cosmetic settings. If you're shipping a product, every setting is a potential bug because you don't test that particular setting necessarily. Worse, every combination of settings is a potential bug. Ideally, settings shouldn't allow you to put your product in an invalid state. That almost always happens with any nontrivial set of non-cosmetic settings however. I've brought up this example many times but many here won't remember the early days of connecting to Wifi. On Windows this meant answering questions like: - Encryption type (eg None, WEP, WPA, WPA-PSK, WPA2, WPA2-PSK) - Passphrase (is this a password? Is it something else? Well, that depends on the encryption type) - SSID Apple came along and reduced this to SSID and password. The principle I take from this is never, ever ask users to enter something that you can figure out on your own. Like you can figure out the Wifi encryption type so why ask? Another example: why ask me for a state and a ZIP code? The ZIP code tells you the state. Settings so often fall into this bucket. You have settings for things that don't make sense, that you can figure out the answer to and are dependent on other settings. Practically speaking, settings become a cultural disease because product and UI/UX people can't agree and someone "compromises" by saying "let's make it a setting" rather than figuring out the right answer. Design is the art of compromise. Settings are the art of not making a decision. [1]: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/12/choices/ https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/04/12/choices/

spacexsucks 5y ago
All of those features that he poo poohs in there are useful and I used them as a newb on Windows. This is Bs gospel. Sure I have had people ask me "dumb" questions but removing the customizavility is not the answer. Your examples are valid except when zip code lookup fails or wifi lookup is not correct and the systems tries to think for me. It takes away that option. This thinking is a disease and the reason I am left with half assed systems that i ahve to work around for my friends and family everyday. A friend felt dumb for not knowing how to plugin a line out cable on her iphone because apple decided 3.5 mm is outdated. I told her she isnt dumb and it is not her job to know that. This is thinking is causing more dumbing down of people than anything else. My parents feel dumb for not knowing how to use a smartphone. The dumb android dialer calls randomly and goes to background with no way to hangup. My dad cant figure out what to touch to close it. With a physical button he can close it easy. Windows phone was miles ahead than latest ios and android in call screen which is what a phone should be for. So are "feature" phones. As a cutting tech engineer, I prefer those over the ad mining machines that are iOS and android My mom feels dumb for not knowing how to order on a website because everything now requires a login which requires a unique password and 2fa and a unique workflow with godawful hidden icons that every UX team wants to lay their marks on and eveything useful gets moved to the overflow menu, the gear or hamburger on some random side of the page. Just have clear wordings with accelerator keys and tab bindings Also because Joel spolsky is right on some things, doesnt mean we should listen to Everything he says. That leads to a monoculture and people are different and diverse. So should be designs. They should be more accomodating of differences, isntead of the current my way or the highway of restricted UXs and walled gardens
- notriddle 5y ago
  > All of those features that he poo poohs in there are useful and I used them as a newb on Windows. I'm curious to hear you actually defend the "Find Setup Wizard." It seems to me like a flow so awful even people who mostly like customization would acknowledge its terrible design.
zhoujianfu 5y ago
I've tried just asking for zip instead of city and state but then watch people as they type their city and state into the address line. Also theoretically people may mistype their zip and you'll have no way to validate it against what they typed in the city/state. The best is the auto-fill from some list of all valid addresses I'd say.

by cletus 5y ago

spacexsucks 5y ago

All of those features that he poo poohs in there are useful and I used them as a newb on Windows. This is Bs gospel. Sure I have had people ask me "dumb" questions but removing the customizavility is not the answer. Your examples are valid except when zip code lookup fails or wifi lookup is not correct and the systems tries to think for me. It takes away that option. This thinking is a disease and the reason I am left with half assed systems that i ahve to work around for my friends and family everyday. A friend felt dumb for not knowing how to plugin a line out cable on her iphone because apple decided 3.5 mm is outdated. I told her she isnt dumb and it is not her job to know that. This is thinking is causing more dumbing down of people than anything else. My parents feel dumb for not knowing how to use a smartphone. The dumb android dialer calls randomly and goes to background with no way to hangup. My dad cant figure out what to touch to close it. With a physical button he can close it easy. Windows phone was miles ahead than latest ios and android in call screen which is what a phone should be for. So are "feature" phones. As a cutting tech engineer, I prefer those over the ad mining machines that are iOS and android My mom feels dumb for not knowing how to order on a website because everything now requires a login which requires a unique password and 2fa and a unique workflow with godawful hidden icons that every UX team wants to lay their marks on and eveything useful gets moved to the overflow menu, the gear or hamburger on some random side of the page. Just have clear wordings with accelerator keys and tab bindings Also because Joel spolsky is right on some things, doesnt mean we should listen to Everything he says. That leads to a monoculture and people are different and diverse. So should be designs. They should be more accomodating of differences, isntead of the current my way or the highway of restricted UXs and walled gardens

notriddle 5y ago
> All of those features that he poo poohs in there are useful and I used them as a newb on Windows. I'm curious to hear you actually defend the "Find Setup Wizard." It seems to me like a flow so awful even people who mostly like customization would acknowledge its terrible design.

zhoujianfu 5y ago

I've tried just asking for zip instead of city and state but then watch people as they type their city and state into the address line. Also theoretically people may mistype their zip and you'll have no way to validate it against what they typed in the city/state. The best is the auto-fill from some list of all valid addresses I'd say.