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Starlink adds another 100Gbps connection to the SeattleIX
- linsomniac 5y agoAside, but super surreal... I went to that page, see the top item is Starlink, the next link is "Welcome Danga Interactive AS32150". That's kind of a small AS compared to Starlink's 146K, but then I realize that used to be my AS, tummy.com.
- davis 5y agoThat's Brad Fitzpatrick https://twitter.com/bradfitz/status/1488682672960376832 https://twitter.com/bradfitz/status/1488682672960376832
- jeffbee 5y agoIn other words, starlink added 5 guy-at-large’s worth of ports.
- linsomniac 5y agotummy.com just shut down a few months ago and sold our old IPv4 swamp addresses and the ASN to him.
- 0x0000000 5y agoShould've sold it to Starlink, maybe if they had some more addresses they wouldn't be using CGNAT.
- chrissnell 5y agoHow are these transactions conducted? If I wanted to buy some IPv4 and an ASN, where would I go and how much would, say, a /28 cost me?
- mcescalante 5y agoI can't speak to how all transactions are conducted, but there are auctions on one marketplace, IPv4 Global auctions, with cost per IP in the $50-60 range https://auctions.ipv4.global/ https://auctions.ipv4.global/. I also really enjoyed Flyio's blog post about acquiring addresses https://fly.io/blog/32-bit-real-estate/ https://fly.io/blog/32-bit-real-estate/
- rossmohax 5y agoToo bad there is no IPV4 ETF, would be a good investment even now.
- walrus01 5y agoYou can't buy smaller than a single /24 through the officially approved arin, ripe and apnic transfer processes, since that is the minimum size of individual netblock you can announce into global routing tables. An asn is not something you buy from a third party unless acquiring a whole corporation that already has one, since there is no real shortage of them, you'd get your asn from your regional registry. Expect about $50 to 55 per IP now.
- 3825 5y ago> Expect about $50 to 55 per IP now. So 254 * 50 or about USD 12k to 13k? That’s the only cost and you get to own 254 IP addresses? Are there ongoing costs?
- dmoy 5y agoI can't see Brad's face anymore and not have nightmares filled with CAN'T BE HUSHED HERE CAN'T BE HUSHED HERE CAN'T BE HUSHED HERE CAN'T BE HUSHED HERE
- 1_player 5y agoI guess it's a reference to https://youtube.com/watch?v=BpsMkLaEiOY https://youtube.com/watch?v=BpsMkLaEiOY Also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9048110 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9048110
- ummonk 5y agoDoes 2x100G mean 100G each way?
- martinald 5y agoNo, 200 each way (2 100gbit links). Not really sure why this is a big deal - IX bandwidth is very very cheap. It looks like seattleIX charges $7500 as a one off payment to add a 100gbit link: https://www.seattleix.net/pr20191218 https://www.seattleix.net/pr20191218).
- toast0 5y agoMostly, network connections aren't so public, so it's interesting in general. Also, upgrading their IX capacity may be a sign that their product is maturing or has significant use. As an upstart ISP, Starlink needs to seek out the connections to CDNs that their customers demand, and an IX connection is a good place to get them at substantially less cost than transit.
- ccakes 5y agoTransit is very cheap these days if you're buying 100G ports.. the economics of whether to peer or not aren't as clear cut as they once were.
- sbierwagen 5y ago>IX bandwidth is very very cheap I would describe it as "capacity", not bandwidth. That fee is just to physically plug into the router. You have to make separate agreements with the other organizations also plugged into that router for peering or paid transit.
- toast0 5y agoNo, at this level, connections are symetric. The next question is probably why is it reported as 2x2x100G? That's most likely two separate connections which are each an aggregated connection of two 100G connections. This is likely to two separate routers on the Starlink.
- jamies 5y ago1yr plus PacNW user; this is likely adding needed backhaul for this high demand region.
- _wldu 5y agoI hope they ship soon. I preordered Starlink and put down the deposit in Feb 2021. Still nothing.
- plazmatic 5y ago
- KennyBlanken 5y agoI've heard a lot of people say they're still waiting. Musk seems to have figured out that he can collect deposits for way more people than he could possibly deliver to, leveraging it as free operating cash. The cybertruck is a great example - millions of people gave him money for something that hasn't left prototype stage and will never be produced because it couldn't possibly meet federal vehicle standards in the US or Europe.
- numpad0 5y agoI’m just thinking the bonnet is going to be plastic and that’ll clear about half or so of the concern, isn’t that the case?
- FireBeyond 5y agoSame with SolarCity, too.
- smoldesu 5y agoI dunno. I've got it, it works fine. I really doubt the constraining factors are with network load or regulation, though; if you can source the components for a couple hundred thousand routers and radar dishes, I'm sure the rest of the industry is dying to hear where you're looking.
- baldfat 5y agoCyber Truck is a style I don't think that will be an issue with meeting Federal Standards and EU Standards
- oxplot 5y ago
- hexo 5y ago100Gbps today is like 300 customers. Hmmmmmm
- Johnny555 5y agoI think my ISP would treat that as a million customers.
- kondro 5y agoMore like 15,000 if you average 1TB per customer per month with 50%-ish burst.
- paxys 5y agoRetail consumers do not receive dedicated bandwidth. ISPs will oversubscribe the promised amount 25x-100x because not everyone is using it at peak capacity 24x7.
- Retric 5y agoResidential customers don’t use anything close to maximum bandwidth regularly. It gets better as you with faster connections and more users. At 100Mbps you can roughly do 20:1 over subscription, bump that to 1Gbps and 50:1 generally works fine. StarLink is aiming for roughly 50-100Mbps connections so this likely represents around 20,000 to 40,000 customers per 100Gbps link. “SpaceX - Starlink (AS14593) has added 2x100G bringing their capacity to a total of 2x2x100G. They are connected to the route servers.” In other words they hit 40,000 to 80,000 customers and are preparing for another 40,000 to 80,000.
- walrus01 5y agoNote that it's hard to quantify this evenly between ISPs, because isp A might have a hundred gig port to an ix and meet all the major cdns and Netflix and Google (YouTube video traffic) over the ix exclusively, while ISP B might have also a hundred gig port but also set up many PNIs for direct cross connect and peering with the largest cdns and sources of traffic. Meaning that ISP B will need to upgrade its ix port at a much later date relative to subscriber count, but its PNIs and cross connects are opaque and hard to know about from a public/external third party perspective.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- adamredwoods 5y agoIs this a direct 'connection' to the satellites?
- walrus01 5y agoNo, this is at one part of the most fundamental core terrestrial portion of the internet, how ISPs talk to each other.
- southerntofu 5y agoAn Internet eXchange Point (IXP, or IX in some languages) is a physical room or building where network operators meet and exchange trafic. The internet flows on physical cables, but depending on where the data goes different tariffs apply. As an ISP, you will pay a transit company to transport your traffic to areas/operators you don't have connection to (very expensive, especially for small ISPs who get charged >1€/Mbit/s). So there's an incentive to establish direct connection with other operators your traffic may need to reach: that's what an IXP is for. Typically, you pay a membership fee to pay for services (electricity, network cabling), and then you can exchange traffic with everyone there for free (peering). So there's really nothing new, unexpected or exciting about this announcement. It's just an ISP getting ready to exchange more traffic with other ISPs.
- andrewf 5y agoYou can see a lot of Starlink’s peering at https://www.peeringdb.com/net/18747 https://www.peeringdb.com/net/18747
- mike_d 5y agoI'm not sure what they are actually using this for. All Starlink customer traffic egresses via Google's network, and all their ground stations are along Google fiber paths.
- londons_explore 5y agoPerhaps to have a decent negotiating position next time their contract with Google comes up for renewal? You get much better prices if Google can see you already have most of your own infrastructure set up and ready to migrate to with not much effort.
- walrus01 5y ago> all their ground stations are along Google fiber paths. actually most of their earth stations are colocated near long haul dwdm regen huts from older, more traditional big telco players like what is now lumen (former qwest/centurylink), level3, zayo, etc. The fact that they can buy transport circuits from those huts to the nearest major cities to meet google is useful. by no means does google really own/run/control most of the long haul dark fiber and dwdm networks in north america. or even a good portion of it. the predecessor entities that have now been rolled up into lumen or zayo do.
- mike_d 5y agoI meant Google fiber paths in the logical sense. Most people don't care to understand the distinctions in how bits on glass are purchased.
- walrus01 5y agoIn most of those places it's not even a Google fiber path in the logical sense, where Google doesn't have a DWDM chassis at the Regen hut, site or an iru in any dark strands there. Starlink is buying transport circuits from the traditional telcos who operate on the route to get to a major city with a Google POP. Like, if you go out to the Prosser Regen hut site and starlink earth station, that's all legacy level3, now lumen.
- wolverine876 5y agoWhat is the significance of it? Wouldn't adding bandwidth be expected? (Do even Y Combinator companies get as much coverage on HN as Musk's?)
- wmf 5y agoYeah, given that they're adding customers continuously they should be adding peering and transit proportionally.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- southerntofu 5y agoThere is zero significance: it's just expensive cables.
- fblp 5y agoAmazing that this is run by a non-profit. Wish more of the internet was like this!
- colechristensen 5y agoA lot of the internet is things like this
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- Karrot_Kream 5y agoThe internet is a lot more like this. The web isn't.
- HNSucksAss 5y ago
- ollybee 5y agoIt is the norm in Europe for IXPs to be run by non-profits. See this for more info http://drpeering.net/HTML_IPP/chapters/ch12-9-US-vs-European-Internet-Exchange-Point/ch12-9-US-vs-European-Internet-Exchange-Point.html http://drpeering.net/HTML_IPP/chapters/ch12-9-US-vs-European...
- walrus01 5y agoas somebody who is a DE-CIX "customer" i find that really funny. maybe for small IXes in europe, but big players like LINX and DE-CIX are doing their thing too.
- ollybee 5y agoI may have missed your meaning, but to be clear, LINX is not for profit and DE-CIX is wholly owned by a not for profit association.
- radicaldreamer 5y agoYou can see a San Francisco IX's members here, not as gigantic as this one, but you have Indies like monkeybrains right next to Netflix and Google https://www.sfmix.org/participants https://www.sfmix.org/participants
- EB66 5y agoI'm very glad to see the SIX getting some attention on HN. I have a lot of respect for how that IXP is operated -- Chris Caputo runs a tight ship. Their one-time fee structure is very friendly to small participants and very unique for an IXP of that size -- that alone should be lauded. SIX governance is very open and transparent. I can't recall the last time they incurred a major unscheduled outage. I wish more large IXPs were run like the SIX.
- rossmohax 5y agoYou made me curious to look up how SIX survives then. Apparently they entirely depend on donations, many of which are not monetary, but essential infrastructure (racks, power, fiber connections etc)
- londons_explore 5y agoThis model works well till some big companies get involved and the bean counters of said companies say "wait, we're spending how many millions of dollars on a donation of security guards and servers to a non-profit? Can't we just donate a bit less and other people will have to cover it?"
- troydavis 5y ago> This model works well till some big companies get involved and the bean counters of said companies say Combined with relatively low one-time port fees, the SIX's funding model has worked for 25 years - including dozens of large companies and bean counters: https://www.seattleix.net/contributors https://www.seattleix.net/contributors
- foota 5y agoIt probably helps to have two of the largest tech companies next door.
- sam0x17 5y agoStarlink is such a scam all my relatives signed up for the $600 beta and now more than a year later still no way to use the service. All the while they keep promising it's only 1-2 months out.
- zakary 5y agoMy company is currently using a Starlink as the primary internet connection (with vdsl backup) for a new office we’re setting up in australia. It works great, consistent 300mbps with peaks up to 500. Anecdotally, the system is working great for us and is actually more reliable than the vdsl connection we use as the failover.
- sam0x17 5y agoI'm guessing you have no trees around?
- disillusioned 5y agoAdmittedly, frontloading the deposit to determine market interest and where to scale with actual dollars is a bit scummy (see: Cybertruck/Model S/3/X/Y/everything Tesla does deposits) but the service IS live in a lot of markets and DOES have real, actual users. Calling it a "scam" implies that those things aren't true. But I agree that Elon time is absurd and irritating and sure feels like a scam. (I would argue FSD being sold for SIX GODDAMN YEARS on Teslas is _absolutely_ a scam.)
- fragmede 5y agoThough, $500 deposit on a $50,000 car is different from a $500 deposit which is about the cost for the whole thing.
- joshe 5y agoThey can just request a refund. https://www.starlink.com/legal/terms-of-service-preorder#:~:text=You%20may%20return%20an%20undamaged,field%2Dof%2Dview%20issues https://www.starlink.com/legal/terms-of-service-preorder#:~:.... Or are they happy to save their place in line?
- jjeaff 5y ago
- mandeepj 5y ago> Elon says they will reach safer than a human self driving this year. Ha! Don’t worry. He will continue to say that for the next few years
- simondotau 5y agoPlease don’t turn Hacker News into Reddit.
- xedeon 5y ago
- jraph 5y agoI don't agree, there are a lot of thoughtful and nuanced conversations on HN all the times. By the way, from the guidelines: > Please don't post comments saying that HN is turning into Reddit. It's a semi-noob illusion, as old as the hills. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- simondotau 5y agoThank you, yes I am aware of that guideline. At the risk of excessive pedantry, I didn't actually say that Hacker News "is" turning into Reddit. You are correct that there are a lot of thoughtful and nuanced conversations on Hacker News. In fact I'd say that it's an understatement—this community is remarkable in how it has managed to defy entropy despite its scale. Even so, it's not perfect. Certain topics seem to unearth some rather bitter trolls—and I find the lack of push-back to be striking in contrast to how similar behaviour is responded to in other topics. (As for the guideline, I'm sure whoever wrote it a decade ago was well-meaning in their intent. But in 2022 it reads as reductive, maybe a bit passive-aggressive and, dare I say it, perhaps even a wee bit narcissistic. "Of course the Hacker News audience isn't turning into Reddit, you noob. It's impossible. Our audience is forever perfect.")
- HNSucksAss 5y ago
- TowerTall 5y ago>SpaceX - Starlink (AS14593) has added 2x100G bringing their capacity to a total of 2x2x100G Why not 4x100G? >Welcome Apple Inc. (AS714) at 2x1x100G. Why not 2x100G? >Akamai Technologies, Inc. (AS20940) has added 3x100G bringing their capacity to a total of 3x100G and 2x100G And why not 5x100G. How does one read these numbers?
- anderiv 5y agoThese are all likely LAG-style circuits, bonding multiple physical circuits into a single circuit. This increases the overall bandwidth available without increasing management and routing overhead needlessly, as individual circuits may do.
- codechad 5y agoAs another said it is referring to LAG (Link Aggregation Groups or "EtherChannel"). From a logical construct perspective each "2x100G" interface is represented by a single "200Gbps" layer 3 interface. When referring to 2x2x100G, it really is meaning 2 layer 3 interfaces, consisting each of 2x100G ethernet interfaces in the link aggregation group. Hashing of L3/L4 header data provides for consistent flow -> lag member mapping to avoid OOOs and other historical multi-link issues.
- julbook 5y agoThis is a great news, giving some love on SIX
- troydavis 5y agoFor anyone who wants a bit of history, Jared Reimer did a presentation for the SIX's 20th anniversary. This was at NANOG in 2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ChhZcH2ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2ChhZcH2ok (slides: https://archive.nanog.org/sites/default/files/4_Reimer_Seattle_Internet_Exchange.pdf https://archive.nanog.org/sites/default/files/4_Reimer_Seatt...)
- virtuallynathan 5y agoI follow Starlink's IP space and connectivity closely, if anyone is interested, see this: https://old.reddit.com/r/StarlinkEngineering/comments/ofly6k/starlink_internet_infrastructure/ https://old.reddit.com/r/StarlinkEngineering/comments/ofly6k...